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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:54 am
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[quote="alainlafrance]. .Yes it was
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Thanks for treating my 'senior moment'. Chromeface cited a date regarding the headstock signature. I've posted references from the interviews in the Christies catalog in which that subject is broached. He didn't want his personal guitars signed anymore. As far as the TBX...did we ever get into why he had it removed????

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:39 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
As far as the TBX...did we ever get into why he had it removed????


There's an explanation about Slowhand's decision to remove the TBX from his personal guitars.

Clapton was apparently dissatisfied from the results he got from the TBX when he made the switch to the VNs in March 2000. He found the tone too muddy.

There's also another reason for which he got rid of the TBX: the extra high end sparkle and brightness provided by the circuit were unnecessary.


Last edited by chromeface on Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:21 pm
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ZZDoc wrote:
@Bobby: Your observations are consistent with discussions we've had in these pages since the inception of the Forums, particularly in the case of Ufboy's odyssey which ultimately ended in his own design which TK did for him and with which he was completely satisfied. Mike Eldred has made it clear that the Artist and Custom Shop versions are merely 'snapshots' of the stage guitar, with the Custom Shop version being more upscale with respect to woods, finishes and overall attention to construction. The only guitar which is proported to be 'as built for the artist', is the Masterbuilt version and more than likely by Todd Krauss if you're looking for that level of detail. You've seen the photo of Todd with the guitars known as 'The Triplets', one of which Alainlafrance owns, built as a group by Todd in 2003, which were ordered 'as built for the artist'. Alain, in a personal communication several years ago, advised me that the neck carve on that guitar was a bit 'sleeker' than his other Claptons. Another one of us within fairly recent past ordered a guitar which was to be a replica of the guitar used at the Cream concert, specifically referencing the wood used for the neck. Save for the gross knowledge that Clapton's guitars are not signed, have a conventional tone pot as opposed to a TBX, and are now revealed to have staggered tuners, it would be difficult to know the fine details of spec for any new order Clapton might place. It's not clear in my memory if Alain's guitar has a wood block 'stopping' the trem. He's posted pictures of a 'blocked' trem on other threads, but I don't know if it was the Triplet he photographed. The old guitar did not. It is also not unusual for TK to have a idea, build a prototype, and send it off to Eric for evaluation, nor are no two guitars exactly the same with respect to feel due to the final handfinishing. At the end of it all, if it's authenticity you desire, you're going to have to ask Todd to build you one, go the freight, and the current waiting time. As for me, despite the fact that I have a low serial #89 Pewter, would make some changes to the body contours if I ordered a guitar build by Todd. I prefer the softly rounded line angles and contours of the vintage Strat body as well as the deeply belly cut on the '57 Strat. These were not duplicated on the bodies which were being turned out in the late '80's/early 90's.


Hi Doc,

I'm aware of the ME's statement on the intrument, and do not object that there are certain things different compared to EC's personal guitars. What bothers me is the extent to which Fender allows for changes compared to the real thing. Simple specs like the proper body routing, using the correct tuning machines, the right tone control (no TBX) and making sure the necks are rift cut really shouldn't be that hard to implement even on a production line guitar. The sheer amount of changes adding up sometimes makes me wonder if Fender is taking its clientele quite seriously enough..... We know they can do the job right, taking the Eric Johnson model as an example. I wish the same attention to detail would be applied to the Clapton model.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:58 pm
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Bobby1 wrote:
We know they can do the job right, taking the Eric Johnson model as an example. I wish the same attention to detail would be applied to the Clapton model.

Perhaps the $400 difference in MSRP between the EC and the EJ's takes into account the fine points that you cite. One can't speak to matters contractual between artists and the company which might account for what you observe. Things we do know, as example:
-the MIM polka dot Buddy Guy was conceived to accommodate a price point comfortable for a portion of his audience...
-the same for David Gilmour's guitar project. He wanted both versions of his guitar 'affordable'
-as for the EJ...who knows. It probably translates out to $280 street, but that number might be a deal breaker for somebody
looking at a Clapton. I also have sense that Eric might be less
altruistic with respect to his audience in matters of business than we would hope. The price of his concert tickets here in FL was a dealbreaker for me.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:18 pm
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in my line of work, i sometimes come across the concept of change management (i.e. how an organization establishes a mechanism to deal with expected, inevitable change and how it impacts their current processes).

my guess is that FCS has a poor change management process in place when it comes to EC's evolving specs. Couple that with the possibility that Eric may try various things from time to time, some of which probably never are requested again and some of which probably become go-forward spec.

The communication loop between Eric (and tech), his builder(s) (whomever they may have been at any particular point in time - a potential source of more confusion prior to establishing Todd as his dedicated builder), and the spec sheet for the rest of his artist line is probably not what it needs to be.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:58 am
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I never imagined Fender using Duracell batteries for their active circuits! :o


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:51 am
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chromeface wrote:
I never imagined Fender using Duracell batteries for their active circuits! :o


:? Why on Earth not?


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:22 am
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ufboy73 wrote:
The communication loop between Eric (and tech), his builder(s) (whomever they may have been at any particular point in time - a potential source of more confusion prior to establishing Todd as his dedicated builder), and the spec sheet for the rest of his artist line is probably not what it needs to be.

......or.....the artist does not necessarily want to share it all with his audience.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:24 am
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chromeface wrote:
I never imagined Fender using Duracell batteries for their active circuits! :o

Good enough for Eric Johnson :!: :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:14 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
ufboy73 wrote:
The communication loop between Eric (and tech), his builder(s) (whomever they may have been at any particular point in time - a potential source of more confusion prior to establishing Todd as his dedicated builder), and the spec sheet for the rest of his artist line is probably not what it needs to be.

......or.....the artist does not necessarily want to share it all with his audience.


Indeed. Let's face it, the EC Strats we get have been different to the ones he gets for as long as they've been made (as Bobby said .. Neck finish.. Body finish etc)


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:36 am
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you guys could be right - but i would be very surprised if eric cared enough about details to say 'keep this slighty slimmer neck carve just for me - but if someone asks todd for it its ok' or 'keep my signature on the headstock for theirs - but again if they ask todd...' or 'dont let the staggered tuners out of the bag'...my understanding is hes relatively out of touch with details.

he may certainly keep a color to himself but this other stuff...i dont know


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:38 am
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LeftyElliot wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
ufboy73 wrote:
The communication loop between Eric (and tech), his builder(s) (whomever they may have been at any particular point in time - a potential source of more confusion prior to establishing Todd as his dedicated builder), and the spec sheet for the rest of his artist line is probably not what it needs to be.

......or.....the artist does not necessarily want to share it all with his audience.


Indeed. Let's face it, the EC Strats we get have been different to the ones he gets for as long as they've been made (as Bobby said .. Neck finish.. Body finish etc)


i have zero doubt in my mind that neck and body finish differences are deliberate decisions from fender


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:31 am
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Viewing this and similar issues dispassionately, with no intention of passing judgement on anyone, I sometimes find in the pursuit of these details, that the juice is just not worth the squeeze. An intellectual interest in these matters is healthy pursuit, I am sure, but our constant search for the 'devil in the details' so to speak sometimes borders on tracks of a runaway train.[ I remember how Mike caught hell about the appearance of the pole pieces on the Mayer guitar and was probably consumed by angst until it was resolved.]
Consider this....Clapton dropped the signatures on his headstocks years ago and nobody was the wiser until the 2004 interview in the Christies catalog which begged the reading for disclosure. The staggered tuners and the standard tone pot have been on his guitars for years without fanfare. Bottom line is, he's not going to issue a press release everytime he goes to the lou.
I will not take issue with anyone's point of view that the representation of a 'artist' or 'signature' guitar should signify that it is a spot on duplicate of what the artist uses. [To his credit, Gilmour insisted on that, and at an acceptible price point. It is, for all intents and puposes, a "Tribute" model, IMHO.] He even toured with one of them. Other than the high end Clapton, I don't believe any of the others go that far and we should let our realities be tempered with that understanding without dampening interest as well as the shelling out of hard earned coin for their acquisition.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:42 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
The staggered tuners and the standard tone pot have been on his guitars for years


We already know that the standard tone pot replaced the TBX in March 2000.

The exact date during which the staggered Klusons were introduced remains a mystery.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:46 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Viewing this and similar issues dispassionately, with no intention of passing judgement on anyone, I sometimes find in the pursuit of these details, that the juice is just not worth the squeeze. An intellectual interest in these matters is healthy pursuit, I am sure, but our constant search for the 'devil in the details' so to speak sometimes borders on tracks of a runaway train.[ I remember how Mike caught hell about the appearance of the pole pieces on the Mayer guitar and was probably consumed by angst until it was resolved.]
Consider this....Clapton dropped the signatures on his headstocks years ago and nobody was the wiser until the 2004 interview in the Christies catalog which begged the reading for disclosure. The staggered tuners and the standard tone pot have been on his guitars for years without fanfare. Bottom line is, he's not going to issue a press release everytime he goes to the lou.
I will not take issue with anyone's point of view that the representation of a 'artist' or 'signature' guitar should signify that it is a spot on duplicate of what the artist uses. [To his credit, Gilmour insisted on that, and at an acceptible price point. It is, for all intents and puposes, a "Tribute" model, IMHO.] He even toured with one of them. Other than the high end Clapton, I don't believe any of the others go that far and we should let our realities be tempered with that understanding without dampening interest as well as the shelling out of hard earned coin for their acquisition.



agreed - i cant certainly see why some would be upset when they find out about differences, however.


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