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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:00 am
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the thing that struck me the most about pics of the triplets was just how straight grained and uniform the necks are.

even other TK built MB Claptons dont necessarily have tight grain like that.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:40 pm
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ufboy73 wrote:
wow, 2003 - i didnt expect it go back that far...interesting.



+1!

Alain, thanks for the pictures!

Ufboy, the grain indeed is very straight, though we established in another thread that Clapton's personal guitars have rift cut necks, so not actual straight grain, what I understand is another name for quartersawn.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:11 pm
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you're quite right on the rift sawn comments.

the face and front headstock tends to look quite straightgrained. the side and portions of the back look more typical flat sawn (with associated variations - i.e. some look fairly regular and others are really crazy looking with a lot of circular swirling patterns).

my understanding is it is a very structurally strong cut but also doesnt have some of the same tonal implications as a full quartersawn...dont really know for myself


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:13 am
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Wow...we certainly have come full circle in our discussions in this regard, from the time ufboy set out on his Clapton quest. This staggered tuner revelation is really quite a surprise. After all this time we're also now looking closely at neck woods and grain cuts. Seems like Eric takes great pains to be one step ahead of his audience in the matter of his personal guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:19 am
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alainlafrance wrote:
Here as promised:
Image
No sig on top
Image
No sig on back
Image
Just as for him...


8)


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:02 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Wow...we certainly have come full circle in our discussions in this regard, from the time ufboy set out on his Clapton quest. This staggered tuner revelation is really quite a surprise. After all this time we're also now looking closely at neck woods and grain cuts. Seems like Eric takes great pains to be one step ahead of his audience in the matter of his personal guitars.


Happened to stumble across some high res pictures of a recent Clapton MB made by another Masterbuilder, which also had the staggered tuners. So, apparently other Masterbuilders are aware of the true Clapton spec too.

I think it's astonishing that Fender has neglected this change in spec which, taking Alain's MBTK as an early example, has occured about 10 years ago! I hope and pray that after Mike Eldred's departure from this forum someone at Fender still reads this and gets cracking.

I'd be happy to receive a free staggered replacement set for my EC Grey any time soon now. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:29 pm
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I thought staggered tuners was to lose string T for better tuning stability via improved angle, so why does this guitar pictured in thread still use string T?

Also, I've also found that if back of headstock has tight straight grain running into back of neck, they are always great sounding Strats. Not all seem to have to be q-sawn. I couldn't find a great sounding EC Strat until I found one with pretty tight wood grain on back of headstock.

Disclaimer, I learned to look for tight wood grain on back of headtock on Strats from my highly regarded pro tech in SoCal, who together as kids learned the trade with one of the most recognized senior master builders at Fender, if that matters. He also loves staggered tuners on my EJ, Custom Shop and Partscaster.

Subjective, but trend of tight grain va q-sawn or not has proven well for me....thanks to my tech.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:42 am
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I think the choice of cut for the necks is probably more to do with stability than anything else, what with the global touring and so forth.
I could of course be speaking utter mince.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:46 am
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Just got this reply from Fender

Thanks for writing in! We appreciate your patience for a response as we are behind on emails and playing catch up. As per Eric Clapton’s Masterbuilder Todd Krause, we have been using the staggered Vintage Tuners since mid to late 90’s Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:29 pm
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les y wrote:
Just got this reply from Fender

Thanks for writing in! We appreciate your patience for a response as we are behind on emails and playing catch up. As per Eric Clapton’s Masterbuilder Todd Krause, we have been using the staggered Vintage Tuners since mid to late 90’s Thanks!

Interesting how the husband is always the last to know. :oops:

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:47 am
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les y wrote:
Just got this reply from Fender

Thanks for writing in! We appreciate your patience for a response as we are behind on emails and playing catch up. As per Eric Clapton’s Masterbuilder Todd Krause, we have been using the staggered Vintage Tuners since mid to late 90’s Thanks!


Well, they must mean they have been using them for Clapton's personal guitars. If Fender apparently has been aware of this change in specs all along, I find it disappointing (to say the least) that the company has neglected to update the spec on the factory and CS teambuilt guitars. The whole point of this signature series is that you would be getting the same guitar as the artist, well according to Fender appartently not so. The amount of liberty Fender has taken over the years with the spec of this model compaared to what Clapton himself was using is quite staggering... neck finish, neck profile, cut of the neck, neck figure, truss rod adjustment, body finish, body contours, body routing, and now tuning keys too? Okay, I admit that some of the changes are related to cost aspects, nevertheless I find the list of discrepancies rather large.


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:24 am
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@Bobby: Your observations are consistent with discussions we've had in these pages since the inception of the Forums, particularly in the case of Ufboy's odyssey which ultimately ended in his own design which TK did for him and with which he was completely satisfied. Mike Eldred has made it clear that the Artist and Custom Shop versions are merely 'snapshots' of the stage guitar, with the Custom Shop version being more upscale with respect to woods, finishes and overall attention to construction. The only guitar which is proported to be 'as built for the artist', is the Masterbuilt version and more than likely by Todd Krauss if you're looking for that level of detail. You've seen the photo of Todd with the guitars known as 'The Triplets', one of which Alainlafrance owns, built as a group by Todd in 2003, which were ordered 'as built for the artist'. Alain, in a personal communication several years ago, advised me that the neck carve on that guitar was a bit 'sleeker' than his other Claptons. Another one of us within fairly recent past ordered a guitar which was to be a replica of the guitar used at the Cream concert, specifically referencing the wood used for the neck. Save for the gross knowledge that Clapton's guitars are not signed, have a conventional tone pot as opposed to a TBX, and are now revealed to have staggered tuners, it would be difficult to know the fine details of spec for any new order Clapton might place. It's not clear in my memory if Alain's guitar has a wood block 'stopping' the trem. He's posted pictures of a 'blocked' trem on other threads, but I don't know if it was the Triplet he photographed. The old guitar did not. It is also not unusual for TK to have a idea, build a prototype, and send it off to Eric for evaluation, nor are no two guitars exactly the same with respect to feel due to the final handfinishing. At the end of it all, if it's authenticity you desire, you're going to have to ask Todd to build you one, go the freight, and the current waiting time. As for me, despite the fact that I have a low serial #89 Pewter, would make some changes to the body contours if I ordered a guitar build by Todd. I prefer the softly rounded line angles and contours of the vintage Strat body as well as the deeply belly cut on the '57 Strat. These were not duplicated on the bodies which were being turned out in the late '80's/early 90's.

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:05 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
Clapton's guitars are not signed, have a conventional tone pot as opposed to a TBX


The unsigned guitars didn't came into surface until 1996.

Image

Clapton got rid of the TBX four years later.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:24 am
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chromeface wrote:
ZZDoc wrote:
Clapton's guitars are not signed, have a conventional tone pot as opposed to a TBX


The unsigned guitars didn't came into surface until 1996.

Image

Clapton got rid of the TBX four years later.

Image
*
Nothing new :?

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Post subject: Re: Staggered Tuners on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:30 am
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ZZDoc wrote:
@Bobby: Your observations are consistent with discussions we've had in these pages since the inception of the Forums, particularly in the case of Ufboy's odyssey which ultimately ended in his own design which TK did for him and with which he was completely satisfied. Mike Eldred has made it clear that the Artist and Custom Shop versions are merely 'snapshots' of the stage guitar, with the Custom Shop version being more upscale with respect to woods, finishes and overall attention to construction. The only guitar which is proported to be 'as built for the artist', is the Masterbuilt version and more than likely by Todd Krauss if you're looking for that level of detail. You've seen the photo of Todd with the guitars known as 'The Triplets', one of which Alainlafrance owns, built as a group by Todd in 2003, which were ordered 'as built for the artist'. Alain, in a personal communication several years ago, advised me that the neck carve on that guitar was a bit 'sleeker' than his other Claptons. Another one of us within fairly recent past ordered a guitar which was to be a replica of the guitar used at the Cream concert, specifically referencing the wood used for the neck. Save for the gross knowledge that Clapton's guitars are not signed, have a conventional tone pot as opposed to a TBX, and are now revealed to have staggered tuners, it would be difficult to know the fine details of spec for any new order Clapton might place. It's not clear in my memory if Alain's guitar has a wood block 'stopping' the trem. He's posted pictures of a 'blocked' trem on other threads, but I don't know if it was the Triplet he photographed. The old guitar did not. It is also not unusual for TK to have a idea, build a prototype, and send it off to Eric for evaluation, nor are no two guitars exactly the same with respect to feel due to the final handfinishing. At the end of it all, if it's authenticity you desire, you're going to have to ask Todd to build you one, go the freight, and the current waiting time. As for me, despite the fact that I have a low serial #89 Pewter, would make some changes to the body contours if I ordered a guitar build by Todd. I prefer the softly rounded line angles and contours of the vintage Strat body as well as the deeply belly cut on the '57 Strat. These were not duplicated on the bodies which were being turned out in the late '80's/early 90's.


It's not clear in my memory if Alain's guitar has a wood block 'stopping' the trem. He's posted pictures of a 'blocked' trem on other threads, but I don't know if it was the Triplet he photographed.
Yes it was
Image

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