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Post subject: Nut files
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:45 am
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Hi,
My first post!!!%&%
1. What type of files does Fender/Fender Custom shop use to cut nut slots?
Double sided round bottom tapperd to a v shape type or the U shaped type?
2. What guages would you use on 9-42 set?
Thanks a lot!
MoJoE


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:19 am
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Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Look at Stewmac.com they have all you need.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Speci ... ddles.html


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:29 am
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Hi stratele52

I'm very familiar with that page from stewmac

The guys at Fender, Mike or other fender master builders this one is for u:

1. What type of files does Fender/Fender Custom shop use to cut nut slots?
Double sided round bottom tapperd to a V shape type or the U shaped type?
2. What guages would you use on 9-42 set?

there is a reason (i think :? ) for my question.

The contact points at the bridge and nut are probably the most critical areas that affect guitar tone and feel.
at the bridge there is usually a strong downward pressure which can hold a string with out any grooves needed which is great (like on the new US standard strat/tele saddles) but at the nut there isn't much - as apposed to a les paul design which you can see how shallow the nut slots grooves come from the factory - which is also great
but fender nut slots are pretty deep cut (my guess is that because of the shallow angle its not possible to have those les paul ultra shallow nut slots

and this is where i'm leading!

my guess is that fender uses the Double sided round bottom tapperd to a 'V' shape type file to get the strings to sit at the nut exactly where they want them to be with very little friction and without popping out at the same time! plus the strings will feel very loose and will ring beautifully
Image
A 'U' shaped file will catch the strings way more in my opinion
Image

can i get a confirmation on this?

thanks
MoJoE


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:29 pm
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The first file you name "V " shape I think is , for me , a "open U " shape, not V . With this open U ( or V ) the string can " breath " more than a U shape.


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:47 am
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Yea!, they actually have a round bottom too but they open up away from the basic diameter and get wider - sort of a upside down Parabola/Bell shape:
Image
seems to me the best shape to hold a string and still sound musical when there isn't enough angle/down pressure


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:11 am
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Hi MoJoe, I didnt forget!!! A little crazy around here as usual so pardon the time it took to respond please.

I'll start by saying that much like guitar players.....stylistically there is some variance with guitar builders as to how they use the tools. Anyway, here's a couple of looks at nut files. First from our VP of Global Quality (who may have the same last name as I, but don't hold it against him):

Image


Then, Cary I. in the Custom Shop was good enough to write me back with the below writings (slightly edited for content by me):
*********************
1- We have ones that basically are like hack saw blades (no taper) with file style “teeth” on each edge. They are made by Grobet. Their about 6” long. Those are mounted in a slot in custom made of aluminum “handles” that are just about as long as the file and the file is held in with set screws from the side to keep them from flexing and just in general easier to handle. They are available in precise sizes as needed for each string.

2- Another type, are the more traditional style. Those are like a tapered, blunt end, stiletto knives with a different size edge on each and colored rubber coated “handles” on the end. There are three;
Red - for strings 1 & 4
Blue – for 2 & 5
Yellow – for 3 & 6
The sizes as indicated are a little big for a standard 10-46 string set. They are really sized for 13-56 acoustic gauge strings. So for the 10-46 string set I use the #5 file for string 6, #4 for 5, #3 for 4, #2 for string 3, #1 for 2 and a “feather” file (also made by Grobet) for string 1. Some guys use the feather file for strings 1 & 2 and some even for 1,2 & 3. The Red, Blue and Yellow files have a fairly round cutting edge and the sides have a slight taper to them extending up the sides. So the grooves they cut fan out a little towards the top of the nut but also cut a round bottom in the slot. The feather file comes to a pretty sharp point with a much shallower taper. Using it for the high E and even the B are fine and ok but I think using it for the G leaves a little “V” below the string so I only use the feather file on E and maybe B Since, as you know, the nut slot should only be half the string diameter, using the Red, Blue & Yellow files leaves a round bottom since the slots are not deep enough for the taper to have any significant effect, but definitely they don’t leave V bottom.

3- The other type of file used here is a combination of the 1st and 2nd style I described above. It is a 2 sided file with no taper and a rubber coating on one end to act as a handle. The tapered style remain rigid even for the 1st and 2nd string file edges. As a result this final style of file (non tapering with rubber handle) is really only used in bass string gauges so that the thickness of the file is sufficient to keep it from flexing.

As you know, it is critical the slot is cut at an angle towards the tuners and the string should have enough wraps around the tuner post so as to pull the string towards the headstock face far enough to create the needed down force on the string in the nut slot so that it is firmly in the nut slot. The slot should not be too deep as much for the cosmetic value as any “tone” value. As long as the string is not sloppy in the slot or bind when tuning or using the trem it is cool. In my opinion, assuming the nut slot has the proper angle and width, anyone who thinks they hear a difference in the tone between a nut slot that is a little too deep vs. exactly half the string diameter must have dog level hearing.
***********************
Hope that helps,
All the best,
rob

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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 11:28 am
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Excellent info! Thank you!

A couple of close-up photos showing the proper angle and width of the slots plus the measurements to check the string height above the frets near the nut will be extremely helpful!

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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:39 pm
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Thanks Rob. Great info and it shows that it's all up to the personal preference.

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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:32 pm
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Hi Rob,

Thanks so much for all the information, you really covered it all - to the last detail.

All the research you have done and brought here is very valuable for me and i already see other people appreciate it to.


i think somone had a question about nut height and measurements here is my take anyway:

To all of who is interested i thought of a great way to get string/nut height to fender specs http://www.fender.com/en-US/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide
(you should start with neck relief, lets say you did that already)
place a 020" feeler guage under the strings at the first fret & capoing directley on the fret (above the strings) sandwiching the strings between the feeler gauge and the capo.
than you go and set string height free of trouble then go back and set nut height to .020", then your string height will remain the same
hope it helps...

MoJoE


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Post subject: Re: Nut files
Posted: Thu May 15, 2014 2:02 am
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Location: France 59
I'm just posting here to bookmark this page to good info to loose.


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