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Post subject: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 6:28 pm
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What is the deal with sonic blue? I've seen many pictures of this blue and it looks so different on each guitar I don't know what to make of it. Pictures of vintage strats with sonic blue finish look quite pale but it seems this blue is not really that pale. Does the blue actually get paler with age? I'd assume if it was a nitro finish it would get significantly greener with age too which I don't really see in photos. Were vintage sonic blue guitars finished in polyurethane?

I like the "faded sonic blue" finishes I've seen (on photos online) and that's the color I would like to get on a custom instruments.

Any insight on this mysterious color?


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:28 am
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Yep, you pretty much nailed it yourself - the vintage ones are a lot paler... almost white, in some cases, and I agree, they look better, too.

I'm not sure why the nitro doesn't discolour as it does with Gibson guitars- I've seen old silverburst Customs that almost look like goldbursts!

I don't want to sound patronising, but the photos are going to vary a lot because they're photos... different lighting, cameras, film, processing...

I think a relic'd and faded Sonic Blue Strat with a dark rosewood board would have to be one of my favourite all-time guitars. And faded Shell Pink is also gorgeous.


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:01 am
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Yes I agree photos are not the best way to judge a color, but I certainly don't come across many vintage sonic blue guitars in the flesh so the best thing I can do is look at as many photos as possible and see if I can come to some conclusion.

So you're saying that the original sonic blue color was a lot paler from the start than the current version of it?


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:11 am
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Faded shell pink with mint green pick guard (plus gold hardware) is class!


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:16 am
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TC5A wrote:
So you're saying that the original sonic blue color was a lot paler from the start than the current version of it?


No, it would have been pretty much identical to how it is today. It's faded with age and that's why the old ones look so much paler. You can order it faded, aged or whatever they call it, though... vintage, antique....


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:24 am
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There is a good side to collectors :wink:
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Fender Stratocaster® 1962 Sonic Blue

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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:29 am
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Very nice! :D


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 12:39 pm
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http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fenderc.html


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:07 pm
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M40A1 wrote:

Good article. I had this bookmarked. But I don't see any specific info in there about sonic blue. I will assume any old sonic blue that has faded to nearly white but not yellowed was finished in polyurethane with no nitro clear coat.

PS I hate that you can't post images here direct from your desktop.

Nice guitar Alain.


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:26 am
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TC5A wrote:
But I don't see any specific info in there about sonic blue.


Lacquer Source(s): DuPont 2295L.
Low VOC Source(s): DuPont 2295K.
Originally used on 1956 Cadillacs. This original nitrocellulose color wasn't translated to acrylic lacquer till 1996. Before the original Sonic Blue was again available from DuPont, the closest lacquer relative available was a 1958 Chrysler color, Ballet Blue, DuPont #2852L.

Read on here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54287

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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:06 am
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Amerigo wrote:
TC5A wrote:
But I don't see any specific info in there about sonic blue.


Lacquer Source(s): DuPont 2295L.
Low VOC Source(s): DuPont 2295K.
Originally used on 1956 Cadillacs. This original nitrocellulose color wasn't translated to acrylic lacquer till 1996. Before the original Sonic Blue was again available from DuPont, the closest lacquer relative available was a 1958 Chrysler color, Ballet Blue, DuPont #2852L.

Read on here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=54287


Interesting info. This is where I'm a bit baffled. If the 1962 in Alain's photo is original it should be mint green by now if this was nitro no?


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:09 am
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We use the original DuPont colors. Blue doesn't fade to white.

ME


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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:02 pm
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TC5A wrote:
[ This is where I'm a bit baffled. If the 1962 in Alain's photo is original it should be mint green by now if this was nitro no?


No offense here, but Alain's photos are neither calibrated nor of good resolution. I have mentioned this to him a few times. Some of his pictures have wrong colors due to this lack of calibration. The picture you proved has a file size of 53 KB which, is a joke. You can't even read the "volume" and "tone" knobs, the Fender logo is hardly legible and the color is off.

If I take this photo and correct at least the levels, it looks like this:

Image

I can't help with the resolution, but the color is already better. The blue gets brighter and has more shine. This is because I worked with the histogram and removed the grey shade. It's still not correct. A correct picture would be taken with calibration colors in the picture so that you could say "this is black" and "this is white". The rest of the colors follow from that.

Image

If you want to compare colors, you need to have properly taken pictures and a calibrated monitor. I have mentioned this to Alain a few times, but I haven't been heard. We see here what trouble this causes because people think the pictures were accurate. They are not. I totally adore Alain's collection and dedication, don't get me wrong. It's nothing personal, I am just pointing to some issues.

Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
We use the original DuPont colors. Blue doesn't fade to white.

ME


Maybe I should talk to Brad Traweek and see if we could do a DuPont - Web Color translation. So that you could just use the eyedropper tool in Photoshop and be able to tell whether it's the right color or not. On calibrated monitors, of course :wink:


Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 6:30 am
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We work in RAW to get a final 1064 x 768 image size, JPEG 80%, 72 ppi which is the most suitable for internet; this gives an average 300 KB per photo.
We don't want people to spend several minutes to access to a photo so heavy of information not visible on internet.
We've worked like that for the 237 guitars already online (within one year :wink:)
We'll work like that for the 250 remaining ones.
This means thousands of photos...
Our calibration system is very primitive: we compare the color of the photo on 27" HD monitors with the one of the actual guitar being photographed. Fair :D

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Post subject: Re: The mystery of sonic blue
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:58 am
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alainlafrance wrote:
which is the most suitable for internet; this gives an average 300 KB per photo.


Alain, with all due respect. The pictures on your website aren't more than 50-60 KB each.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y173/a ... sonic1.jpg

This one is 52 KB.

http://www.guitarmotel.com/images/stori ... bewr-1.jpg

This one is 52 KB

It's full of JPG-artifacts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compression_artifact

Resolution is so bad that you cannot read "Tone" or "Volume", "Stratocaster" or anything. This is only due to lack of resolution which is mirrored in file size.

I hope that you will finally see and understand this issue so that "guitarmotel.com" becomes a valid source. It's not more work, it's more understanding of what you're doing in photography, photo editing and web publishing.

alainlafrance wrote:
Our calibration system is very primitive: we compare the color of the photo on 27" HD monitors with the one of the actual guitar being photographed. Fair :D


Yes, you do this - and it's wrong. If you'd calibrate, it would be correct. And if you had the proper JPG compression, resolution would be there, too.

Cheers

David

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