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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:15 pm
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PaulSurf wrote:
Over the past several years, I've had twenty CS guitars, both relic and NOS. The best sounding were the relics. It may fly in the face of the science, but after a lot of hours playing these things, the relics just had the better tone. These were the guitars retained.


So the choices narrow. The explanation of why, seems it's something we cannot get by just thinking about it. It's either:

Mike tells us what voodoo goes into relics to make them superior; or we get no satisfaction and live forever with another enigma like that of the Sphinx.

Stay tuned.

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:15 pm
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No voodoo.
Only difference is the finish which is very slight. NOS is very similar.
I personally believe it's how you are inspired to play. YOU play differently on a Relic and you do on a NOS. Just my opinion.

ME


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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 3:27 pm
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
No voodoo.
Only difference is the finish which is very slight. NOS is very similar.


Oops! There go the theories.


Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
I personally believe it's how you are inspired to play. YOU play differently on a Relic and you do on a NOS. Just my opinion.

ME


Yep. Big difference there... in the player, not the guitar.

I play my only relic with total abandon. If I damage it, who can tell? I scratch a NOS and it's 911.

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 7:09 am
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atolleter wrote:
I'd be willing to bet that listeners preferences would be all over the place.


On another forum I frequent, there have been blind tests of (e.g.):
- Squier Strat with GFS overwounds vs. SRV Strat, stock pickups
- Squier Strat with vintage-style pickups vs. G&L S-type

I was able to guess which was which correctly based on a few assumptions I made, but my actual preferences weren't always toward the "nicer" guitar.


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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:54 am
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
You guys drive me nuts when you say, "resonate more"! :)

That term makes no sense.

All things (objects) resonate.
Everything resonates at a specific frequency.
Nothing resonates "more", just at a different frequency.
There is no better or worse, just different.

ME


Things like guitar bodies resonate at a lot of different frequencies.
Each mode has it's own characteristic.
There's a lot more to it than just the frequency of the resonance. There's also the
damping factor which determines how wide the resonant peak is. Which, strange
as it sounds, also effects how punchy that modes resonance is and how much sustain
it has.

I agree with no better or worse, just different - unless it's really bad - then it's worse.


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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:25 am
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Define "bad".

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:10 pm
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
Define "bad".

ME


When the wood is cracked, the resonance is bad.

Short of a crack I guess it's a matter of taste. Although,
on a solid body some folks really dislike the way
solid or semi-solid maple sounds. And mahogany can be too dark
for some. The ash on my CS strat has a great sound, I
can't imagine anyone not liking that sound. On the other hand
some of those strats from the late 70s were nothing to write
home about.

You can get a feel for how a chunk of wood sounds by holding it
at a node, a place where it doesn't vibrate for the modes you'll hear
when you tap it at a place that it will vibrate a lot for those modes.
The frequencies of the modes will change when it gets carved into a
guitar but you'll learn something about the damping of the wood. That is
how long it rings.

A bit hard to know just how much the finish adds to this equation. People
say all sorts of things. I don't know what's true. The Custom Shop could make
a before finish and after for the same guitar video.

I seem to remember the beatles getting all excited when they stripped the finish from
their Epis. They seemed to think it made a huge difference. Those guitars were
hollow bodies though.

What was the question. Oh yea, a crack is definitely bad.


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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:09 pm
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
No voodoo.
Only difference is the finish which is very slight. NOS is very similar.
I personally believe it's how you are inspired to play. YOU play differently on a Relic and you do on a NOS. Just my opinion.

ME


+1,
i know im inspired to play differently with my strats.
i could just imagine the inspiritation while playing a cs, nos, or a relic...

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 10:25 pm
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Here is my situation - I mainly play relics because the look suits me as a player, they sound good, and I don't feel bad if they get beat to $@!& on the road. As I say to our road guys -"don't worry! If you ding it up, you're only making it look cooler!"

I've played NOSs, Closet Classics, and Relics side by side. And I'd say they pretty much sound in the same ballpark tone-wise. I do know that the less finish on the guitar, the more the body resonates (quoting JM here from the Black1 DVD - YouTube it). So having said that, one would think that a relic naturally would have a different resonance, depending on how much bare wood is exposed. Would I be correct in saying that, Mike?

At the end of the day, it's a personal choice. People are always going to disagree on which is better. The whole world always seems to be arguing, weather it be about "Cat or Dog?", "Mac or PC?" or even "white or wheat?" the answer is going to differ from person to person.

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:14 am
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Mike
I understood that the finish for the Relics was of a different composition allowing a slower drying, thus permitting the relicing process.
Am I right ?

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:49 am
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The nitro finish on my olympic white relic is gorgeous and appears to have this unique yellowish thing going on. :D
I am assuming that aging the paint finish is a professional secret of sorts.
In my opinion there is major Voodoo involved in every CS guitar!
To me the NOS guitars are also just as esoteric, being crafted at the same site!
Imagine going out to lunch with all the CS staff man! Pure magic!

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Post subject: Re: Seriously: do Relics sound better than NOS guitars?
Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:47 am
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I would never purposely strip the finish off any of my guitars to see if it would sound better, but The Beatles seemed to think there was something to it.

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