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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:07 am
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"...degradation of available materials..."

Please explain.

ME


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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:14 am
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
"...degradation of available materials..."Please explain.
ME

Perhaps he's alluding to depletion of natural resources....such as certain types of rosewood.

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:46 am
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Just meant the availability of old growth ash and alder compared to 50 yrs ago... and old growth Brazilian rosewood.. tone woods are increasingly difficult to get... maybe fender isnt having a hard time I can't speak to that but a close luthier friend of mine
atleast is always giving me an earful about how its such a problem for him getting enough together for the kind of instruments he wants to build, but can I personally say that is the case? .. no, not with any certainty.

But he did just spend a few thousand dollars on a derelict chickering Box piano made in 1848 out of brazillian rosewood.. he is cutting up like a diamond for guitar backs and fretboards...

I hope no one thought I was dissing Fender here.. I am a life long fender owner and one of its biggest fans.. and I have to say guitars being built now compared to when I was a kid in 1975... are better.. more tuning stability, better intonation...fewer duds etc.

Cheers. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:04 pm
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Tongo wrote:
I hope no one thought I was dissing Fender here.. I am a life long fender owner and one of its biggest fans.. and I have to say guitars being built now compared to when I was a kid in 1975... are better.. more tuning stability, better intonation...fewer duds etc. Cheers. :wink:

You seem to be in step with the current thinking about these guitars and their woods, which forever leads me to wonder why the high numbers in the market for vintage instruments. I see these guitars in the showcases of high end dealers and they look like hell and high water. If I can have a guitar built to '57 specs by a Masterbuilder at tighter quality control, and to a finesse which suits my taste, an argument might be made for old growth wood. But we're talking Strats here, not Strads. The latter is totally different animal which speaks with a unique and natural voice. An electric guitar will forever require an amplifier, the nature of which will affect its tone. I have no doubt that ME understands this and was just seeking clarification from you, nothing more.

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:15 pm
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All good, just want to make sure you guys aren't drinking bad koolaid.

Old Growth "Tonewoods":

1) Ash and Alder are "weed woods" ALWAYS plenty on hand, and ALWAYS has been. Southern Ash is lighter and more "punky" so it's often referred to as Swamp Ash. Lighter is not better. Don't kid yourself. Lighter is more bassy, less sustain, less cut. Not better, just different. Most artists we deal with could care less about weight.

2) Brazilian Rosewood does not "sound better" If you disagree, let's get it on. Show me how. In detail. Brighter? Darker? Don't kid yourself. It's hype. It's a buzzword. Bottom line: It's endangered. We won't use it anymore.

Sometimes, stuff gets spread around the web and people start believing it. Don't get caught up in that.

ME


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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:22 pm
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100 000 L series have been produced.
Not to mention the earlier ones.
Up and downs in quality.
Some still alive are outstanding instruments.
50 years on a wood made instrument with 50 years aging of the electronics bring something exceptional and quite unique.
Nothing, far from me that idea, you know my passion for the CS instruments, detrimental to the actual guitars.
But my analog very high end hi fi system with a state of the art turntable and moving coil cartridge was far better than the very best of the nowadays digital hi hi systems.
That's it.
We have to deal with present time.
Fender is outstanding in bringing the very best presently available at a "reasonnable" price.

Just wish I'd be there in 50 years to make a comparison (alas, let's forget it :( )

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:02 pm
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Yes! Keep in mind there are a LOT of dogs out there from the Fender factory in the 50's and 60's.

So much consistency today.

ME


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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 2:07 pm
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
All good, just want to make sure you guys aren't drinking bad koolaid.
Sometimes, stuff gets spread around the web and people start believing it. Don't get caught up in that.
ME

Most guitar mags have done feature articles on endangered species and the consortium of maker who are working together in this matter. Methinks you have herein a sophisticated group who are current in these matters. Your comments were most valuable and well received. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:14 pm
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well I dont know about weed trees or anything but I know its much harder to get a one or 2 peice guitar body of alder or ash and their is always a premium attached to one and most players would agree that a 5 piece body doesnt sound anywhere as good as a 1 or 2 piece body. As far as Brazillian rosewood goes there is a big difference to my ear. indian rosewood.. (i dont know anything about african flavor) sounds fine and neutral compared to the coloring I hear with brazillian.. its personal taste. and many people hear the difference but it doesnt really matter on this forum .. if you think they sound the same thats fine.


Cheers

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:52 pm
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What does Brazilian sound like to you?
What's the difference in sound?
Between two-piece, and four piece?

ME


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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 3:43 am
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Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
All good, just want to make sure you guys aren't drinking bad koolaid.

Old Growth "Tonewoods":

1) Ash and Alder are "weed woods" ALWAYS plenty on hand, and ALWAYS has been. Southern Ash is lighter and more "punky" so it's often referred to as Swamp Ash. Lighter is not better. Don't kid yourself. Lighter is more bassy, less sustain, less cut. Not better, just different. Most artists we deal with could care less about weight.

2) Brazilian Rosewood does not "sound better" If you disagree, let's get it on. Show me how. In detail. Brighter? Darker? Don't kid yourself. It's hype. It's a buzzword. Bottom line: It's endangered. We won't use it anymore.

Sometimes, stuff gets spread around the web and people start believing it. Don't get caught up in that.

ME


Interesting observation about Swamp ash and Alder Mike, how would you compare these to say, Agathis or Pine- the recent use of old pine for the current limited run? it's just I have never known Pine to be a well used wood for guitars. There are luthiers in NZ that use a lot of ancient figured Agathis Australis (known as 'Kauri') that has been preserved in swamp peat as they are not allowed to be logged... http://www.guitars.co.nz/ancient_cache.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathis_australis

Apparently in my part of the world, pine grows very damn quick compared to America or Canada- Im not too sure if it would be of any use for guitars though as most of it gets used as pulp or pallets, firewood etc.. good for export.

On the subject of Brazilian Rosewood, what are your thoughts of recycling existing exotic woods? (old table tops, doors etc...)

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:05 am
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Blertles wrote:
Mike Eldred - Fender wrote:
All good, just want to make sure you guys aren't drinking bad koolaid........ME

Bummer....and my favorite kind, too. 8) Just loved the way it custom colored the world, 'cept since Jonesville, it sort of acquired a bad reputation. :?

Quote:
it's just I have never known Pine to be a well used wood for guitars.

They must have learned something from having used old pine floor boards from a church to build the repros of Clapton's '57 Twin which they and it were just sold at auction. Apparently the first attempt at the cabinets wasn't well accepted. Then they changed the wood and 'bingo'!! Thus we have another experiment from the CS to play with. :idea: You ne-ever know. :wink:

BTW: What the hell are you doing up so early. :shock: Do you have any idea of what time it is in Florida :!: :lol: I'm sitting here watching the sun just beginning to rise out of my east facing windows, and a spectacular moonset over a banyon tree to the west. :wink:

Sleep well.

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 4:28 am
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Quote:
BTW: What the hell are you doing up so early. :shock: Do you have any idea of what time it is in Florida :!: :lol: I'm sitting here watching the sun just beginning to rise out of my east facing windows, and a spectacular moonset over a banyon tree to the west. :wink:

Sleep well.


Thanks! Im actually about to mosey off to bed :lol: I was hoping to get a nice glimpse of our moon, apparently its at it's very closest point to earth right now.. I really should have been in bed ages ago :wink: Ive been waiting to hear about the latest aftershock down south on the news.. I shall catch your sunrise in about 6 hours time :wink:

Goodnight all :wink:

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 5:54 am
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Quote:
Ive been waiting to hear about the latest aftershock down south on the news.. quote]

Fascinating. Just read and responded to a Facebook comment from our Forum mate on Java. Seems that it's been shaking a bit out his way and he has concerns that things may get on from there. What the hell is going on out west?? :shock:

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Post subject: Re: would the custom shop do this?
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2011 8:14 am
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History Son!!
The first Esquires were made out of...?

ME


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