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Post subject: MSRP - Help
Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:57 am
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I'm not sure how appropriate this is but I would really like an answer. I've been buying Fenders for many years. Good ones Mostly CS models. I've searched several Websites.

I know stores have special Runs made. But of the Stock Custom Shops..Why are the Retailers selling at MSRP.

Up to 2 years ago if the Fender Website retail price list said 4199.00 I could pretty much depend that the retail store would sell it to me for 800-900 less than that.

Last week I approached an Online retailer based on this same assumption. They told me the price and it was the same as on the Fender site. When I mentioned my thinking the guy on the phone said I was mistaken.

Everyone keeps talking about how Fender took a 25 % price increase. Is that why.

On a lesser note I bought my Son a Vintage Hot Rod Start when they first came out. I think it was 1599.99 .. Now I see a couple years later it's 2200.00.

Hows a working man going to afford a new guitar. Should I just wait and buy a used one???


I really don't need anymore CS guitars. But I'd like more.. Can anyone clear this issue up. I've kept track of Fender stuff for years and I know they go up - But not like what I mentioned. Do they??

Once again I am not trying to piss off the powers that be. But I feel like I'm being ripped off. Most of the local Mom and POPs are gone and these new retailers .. Well enough said


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Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:44 pm
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Ric - since you been left out in the cold with this one ill try to help...sometimes price discussions are a bit sensitive on forums such as these as Fender and many other companies want brand image to relay on prices and hush-up about dealer costs, pricing structure, etc...especially in the US and custom shop lines...with that said 32% off retail not MAP (min advert. price)...retail/list is a decent discount...32-40 (the best ive seen so far) are the mediums when dealing with msrp...Keep in mind some dealers will not budge from MAP pricing sometimes but most do...As far as the price hikes, thats another story...Good luck on whatever you decide to get next...I just spoiled myself to a 50th anniv 1960 Historic Les Paul and am done for the rest of the year...I did pay a handsome amount for this but not anything near the 6k it is MAPd at...hope this helps


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Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:59 am
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Yep, you got to realize that the Fender Custom Shop's (FCS) direct "customer" is their Showcase dealers. We, the consumer, are the direct "customer" of the Showcase dealer. Strictly talking NEW guitars, not used ones sold on eBay or elsewhere. You can imagine that if a particular Showcase dealer or two where marking their new FCS guitars very low while the others were trying to sell at or near MSRP that the market would be out of balance. Certainly the FCS wants their dealers, or customers, to sell their guitars, but they would like the market to be balanced so that ALL of them are selling and staying in business. The FCS, I think, must be uniquely different than the parent company Fender because they (FCS) does not have the market base that the parent company has.

Put another way, say you are a manufacturer that makes a very special and unique widget. You have ten distributors that you sell this widget to. The distributors are not owned by you, they are independent dealers. But because your widget is so special, you only want to sell to the BEST distributors. You select these distributors based on their locations so that you can get your widget into the hands of the consumer across all of the USA. You want to sell your widgets based on what you can safely make (talking "I can only make X amount of widgets while ensuring a quality product. If I exceed X amount than I know I exceeded my manufacturing capability and quality will suffer" yada-yada). Knowing your output capacity, you sign your distributors up individually, telling each them that their price for the widget is Y dollars and that your Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP) is Z dollars. Once the contracts are signed and you produce and sell your widgets to the distributors you realize that one of them figured out a way to outsell the others, driving their customers to him. Since he was getting the same widget as the others, he decided to sell just a tad above his cost so that he could drive the market to him. This of course takes precious widgets away from the other distributors and creates an imbalance in your market. Remember, you wanted to sell across all of the USA, not just at one location. You also knew that you can only produce a certain amount of the widgets each month, as that was you manufacturing capacity. Now you have a bunch of distributors that are upset that they are being outsold by a renegade distributorship and that their supply of widgets are being directed toward him. So, what are you, as the Widget Manufacturer, going to do to get the market back in balance?


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Post subject:
Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:37 am
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That is a great observation. Another factor is that MAP only exists in the USA. The above scenario is NOT a global one, just for the USA.

ME


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 1:59 pm
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hi,

i was a cs dealer in france but due to reduced price on web i can't be a dealer now if i want to stay alive.if there were a map price in eu i probably buy few of them.

some french dealers buy there cs in us shop to have a great price but i don't think business needs these things.

same price everywhere and many more guitars everywhere.

but big web shop are so strong that it can't be true

hope mike give me an answer :D


arnaud from france.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:19 pm
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You should compare and show us what you mean.

ME


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:47 am
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hi mike,

thanks for your fast answer :)

for example
guitare village(french):tele 63 relic:3599 euros
tele 52 humbucker: 2940euros

coda(uk)tele 63 nos:1799£give 2079euros
guitare village(uk) tele 52humbucker:1871£give 2160euros.

if someome came and ask me for one of this guitar he could think that i'm saving a lot of money selling them at msrp.and it's not the realityif the guitar have the big huge twang!.
to have a good business i think it's very clear to say"the price is the price everywhere"

do you think business probably better if there were a map price like apple computer or nintendo game?

hope you understand my poor language :oops:

regards

arnaud.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:42 am
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Minimum Advertised Price (MAP) only exists in America. European dealers can sell at any price.

I thought you were suggesting a comparison with US and Europe.

ME


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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:22 am
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Location: Paris France
Objection Arnaud,

In France they all claim that Fender France insist on fixed prices otherwise they won't get anymore supply.
Which I don't think , it's just to avoid some kind of competition.
And I know several Dealers in France who buy directly in the States for high end guitars.
In the UK it's more open and Customer friendly.
Guitare Village (F) is a very nice and comprehensive shop within the local "regulations"
Don't forget there is Fender Europe, Then Fender France, then the dealer.
Alain

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Post subject:
Posted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:25 pm
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thanks mike and alain

european dealers can sell at any price and to me that mean that big dealers can keep the business just for them.a little shop can't resist, and to me, map is the only way to see more guitar everywhere.

the competition is not the way we should go for loving guitars....
loving cs guitar but can't play with the big company at the game of the best price....
hope something change with fender europe or fender france (as alain said)

mike and alain i'm always ready for a good idea... :wink: .

best regards

arnaud.


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