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Post subject: Pick up question for Master Built Strat
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:13 am
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I've been assigned a Master Builder for a strat. I've been playing for some time but don't have the technical expertise that most of you have; I just know what I like. I have thus far wanted Fat 50s and now I'm thinking 1965 type pickups after watching an interview with Joe Bonamassa discuss the technical aspects of his strat collection.
I want a sound that could encompass Mark Knopfler -Jimi Hendrix- John Mayer and I am not going for a sound like SRV. My limited knowledge tells me that I like de-emphasis of mids. I'd like slightly more power than the vintage pick ups. Any suggestions or is this just a ridiculous request? Help, I'll speak with him in October.


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Post subject: Re: Pick up question for Master Built Strat
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:08 am
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Phil415 wrote:
I've been assigned a Master Builder for a strat. I've been playing for some time but don't have the technical expertise that most of you have; I just know what I like. I have thus far wanted Fat 50s and now I'm thinking 1965 type pickups after watching an interview with Joe Bonamassa discuss the technical aspects of his strat collection.
I want a sound that could encompass Mark Knopfler -Jimi Hendrix- John Mayer and I am not going for a sound like SRV. My limited knowledge tells me that I like de-emphasis of mids. I'd like slightly more power than the vintage pick ups. Any suggestions or is this just a ridiculous request? Help, I'll speak with him in October.


Hmm, you want a sound that encompasses Mayer, yet not SRV.... that's going to be a hard one to tackle... Mayers pups are based on the pups in the SRV Strat...


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Post subject: Re: Pick up question for Master Built Strat
Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:00 pm
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Robert R. wrote:
Phil415 wrote:
I've been assigned a Master Builder for a strat. I've been playing for some time but don't have the technical expertise that most of you have; I just know what I like. I have thus far wanted Fat 50s and now I'm thinking 1965 type pickups after watching an interview with Joe Bonamassa discuss the technical aspects of his strat collection.
I want a sound that could encompass Mark Knopfler -Jimi Hendrix- John Mayer and I am not going for a sound like SRV. My limited knowledge tells me that I like de-emphasis of mids. I'd like slightly more power than the vintage pick ups. Any suggestions or is this just a ridiculous request? Help, I'll speak with him in October.


Hmm, you want a sound that encompasses Mayer, yet not SRV.... that's going to be a hard one to tackle... Mayers pups are based on the pups in the SRV Strat...


Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they very different? I thiought the name big dippers came for a de-emphasis of the mids whereas SRV's emphasize them? Based on but modified? My understanding is that the fat 50's also deemphasize the mids and the 65's are piano like based on the wire and bobbin used. I'm just wanting to know if it is possible to optimize those characteristics without canceling them out?


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Post subject: Re: Pick up question for Master Built Strat
Posted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:55 am
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Phil415 wrote:
Robert R. wrote:
Phil415 wrote:
I've been assigned a Master Builder for a strat. I've been playing for some time but don't have the technical expertise that most of you have; I just know what I like. I have thus far wanted Fat 50s and now I'm thinking 1965 type pickups after watching an interview with Joe Bonamassa discuss the technical aspects of his strat collection.
I want a sound that could encompass Mark Knopfler -Jimi Hendrix- John Mayer and I am not going for a sound like SRV. My limited knowledge tells me that I like de-emphasis of mids. I'd like slightly more power than the vintage pick ups. Any suggestions or is this just a ridiculous request? Help, I'll speak with him in October.


Hmm, you want a sound that encompasses Mayer, yet not SRV.... that's going to be a hard one to tackle... Mayers pups are based on the pups in the SRV Strat...


Please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they very different? I thiought the name big dippers came for a de-emphasis of the mids whereas SRV's emphasize them? Based on but modified? My understanding is that the fat 50's also deemphasize the mids and the 65's are piano like based on the wire and bobbin used. I'm just wanting to know if it is possible to optimize those characteristics without canceling them out?


I think the best way is just to go round to the nearest store and try those pickups. Shouldn't be too hard to find a store that has both an SRV and a Mayer sig.


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Post subject: Re: Pick up question for Master Built Strat
Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:53 am
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I think the best way is just to go round to the nearest store and try those pickups. Shouldn't be too hard to find a store that has both an SRV and a Mayer sig.[/quote]

Thanks Robert. I think that is great advice. I was just wondering if anyone had experience tweaking already existing pickups to optimize certain characteristics. I'll certainly discuss it with the builder. Thanks again,
Cheers


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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:04 am
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The pickups are only half of the equation, your amp selection is going to be critical to produce the sound desired.

WE all debate/discuss guitar finish, wood selection for neck and body, hardware, pickup selection, BUT the amp is also the instrument.
Tube amps are going to be the choice for where you are headed and as importantly at which point does the amp start to break up, a 15 watt champ is going to sound completetely different than a 60 watt Deville when pushed.

You did not mention amp selection, pickups sound very different from one amp to another.

I'm not up on what Mayer is using or for that matter what SRV or hendrix used.
I believe it is better to seek the tone you hear yourself rather than chase another musician's tone. THis way you develop your own sound regardless of other's preferences.
Which does not mean that their sound is irrelevant, just that it is a reference point.

Definitely mention the details of your equipment to your Master builder at the CS and what you are seeking for tone, they will then be able to dial in your MB strat for the best possible result.

I did not mention peripheral effects, since I consider them to be problematic in searching for THAT sound. Effects mask true tone often to the demise of your goals.
Once you have that sound , then you can color it but not before. I have not used my effects for years,(envelope filter, chorus, compression ) other than an old 60's Vox Wah...

I apologize for the lenght of this reply but this is where I'm at in my own personal sound search.
I will also be ordering another Custom Shop Strat, and it may very well have to be masterbuilt as well.

Good luck and post photo's when available so we can all oogle...


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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:14 pm
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Thanks 53M. All very good points. I play through a Mesa Engineering Stiletto Ace combo amp that nails both the clarity and sustain that I like. Very versatile.

Although you can't tell from my original post I am into a strat with a classic strat sound when played clean and also a British crunch type of sound when looking for sustain. (I know Jimi and John are not Brits but Jimi's Marshall sound falls into the general category for me and John's sustain is great). I wanted to get pickups that if possible, encompassed those unique sounds of the artists I mentioned and from what I have gleaned reading this forum and others it would be somewhere in the fat 50s, 65s, and dippers realm.

Update: The master builder called me! Paul Waller, what a nice guy! Also a real can do sort of person. He told me he knew where I was going with it and will wind some! I am so excited I can't stand it. I have to though.
Pics and recording when I get it.

Cheers and again thanks for the comments.
Phil


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Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:22 pm
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At this point in time I use 2 Fender Strats, but the similarities end there.

An MIM, 2001 (was a deluxe player's strat.) pups changed to SCN's, super switching switch removed, tremolo block upgraded to heavier model for sustain, changed front/back guards, vintage tuners changed to Sperzel Locking. Clear clean sound with a slight edge at full tilt.

A CS 56 NOS Reissue, all vintage specs, no mods other than string tree changed to a roller type, 5 way switch installed.
Classic 50's sound at mid range, yet on full the pups just get that warm bluesy fuzzy sustain, from a classic Clapton sound to a circa 80's ZZ top sound.Image

I am playing thru a vintage 1959-1962 Magnatone 410 Custom Classic. A Hot Rod Deluxe, ( Sam Ash limited edition Black and Tan) and a 600 Champ.
Have yet to decide on the next amp, Vintage reissue Princeton or Deluxe or a Blues Junior or perhaps even a Swart.[img][img]http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/MarcJM/IMG_4499.jpg[/img][/img]Image


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Post subject:
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:34 am
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minch wrote:
The mark knopfler strat and srv strat have the same pickups.


Seemingly contradictory goals according to my original post. I like the Knofler sound when clean, just didn't want the SRV sound when cranked and overdriven. Had problems communicating that day!

53mag your equipment is killer!


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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:37 am
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minch wrote:
The mark knopfler strat and srv strat have the same pickups.


Seemingly contradictory goals according to my original post. I was talking about the Knofler sound when clean. Mr. Knopfler probably had stock pickups in 1978 or whenever Sultans of Swing came out I'm guessing?

53mag your equipment is killer!


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Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:50 am
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Thanks, it's the beginning of a collection based on first and foremost musical needs.

Have you played the Samarian Cobalt Noiseless pups? they are really clean sounding yet will dirty up slightly when pushed and are versatile.

Completely different in the Champ or the Magnatone or the HR DLX.
I did have a standard strat with Dimarzio's, could not find the right tone with it even though I loved the ax itself. got traded..[img][img]http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu294/MarcJM/DSCN5004.jpg[/img][/img]


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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:23 am
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You'll never get Knopfler tone by de-emphasising mids. The high mids of a strat are the basis of his sound. The same could be said for Hendrix. Ok I know that 69's are mid scooped but for studio work the only album he used a strat exclusively on was Are You Experienced.
Listen to that album on a flat eq setting and that guitar sounds quite prominent in the upper mids too.
As far as the Knopfler and SRV strats having the same pickup, neither artist uses/used that pickup in their prime. The better Knopfler sound in my opinion came from his first two albums. That was a Seymour Duncan alnico2 magnet based set.

That said, trust your builder to get you what you want. He knows his onions.

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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:20 pm
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Phil,
I don't know enough to hold my own in this thread. I am curious though, do you have a link to the Joe Bonamassa interview you referred to in your original post?


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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:32 am
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thewood1987 wrote:
Phil,
I don't know enough to hold my own in this thread. I am curious though, do you have a link to the Joe Bonamassa interview you referred to in your original post?


Neither do I! Actually the interview was on a DVD called "Solid bodies, The 50 Year Guitar War" about Strats and Les Pauls. He is interviewed on that DVD and he makes that statement or a close paraphrase.

To nikininja's point - I agree completely and in my conversation with the masterbuilder he said - "No problem, I have exactly what you want by your description and I'll make it happen". He told me I'll be able to get the 1978 Knofler sound as well as a Jimi/John sound when cranked.
I'm beyond excited about this build.
Best regards,
Phil


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Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:01 pm
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Phil415 wrote:
He said - "No problem, I have exactly what you want by your description and I'll make it happen". He told me I'll be able to get the 1978 Knofler sound as well as a Jimi/John sound when cranked.
I'm beyond excited about this build.
Best regards,
Phil


The Knopfler bit is the hard bit mate. I put a BareKnuckles Sultans set in my strat. Alnico2's, handwound, blessed by the pope whilst he was holding hands with the queen, all that gumf.
I can do Jimi on it, I struggle to get a Knop sound! Perhaps it's the Marshalls. Suppose I'll have to knock up a Roland JC120 clone. Ain't it amazing how such a 'bare bones' sound is so hard to replicate.

Hope you fair better in your endevours. :wink:

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