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Post subject: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat 50s
Posted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:09 am
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Hello All,
I just had a conversation with a sales rep at a dealer in Queens NY that keeps some Custom Shops in stock.

He happens to have both a Masterbuilt Jeff Beck and a Custom Shop '59 Stratocaster NOS, 3-Tone Sunburstt in stock, and I'm curious about the '59 NOS. Neither he nor I could find any hard specs on it. Anybody know if it's been discontinued ? I thought that was a popular Custom Shop model ?
I asked him if he could characterize the difference in tone, and he stated the Dual Coil Noiseless are rounder and "creamier" sounding than a traditional single coil. Neither he nor I could find any hard specs on the '59 NOS.
I am in particular wondering what pickups are in it.
The Custom Shop Fat 50s ?

Please give me your subjective opinion on what you think these two different pickups sound like. Ceramic Noiseless Dual Coil vs (he and I are guessing) vs the Custom Shop Fat 50s. I appreciate your input.

I recently bought a Custom Shop JB.
Nobody down here had one for me to play and I ordered it sight unseen. I thought I was seeing a pickup problem (accidentally wired out of phase or something) but now I'm wondering if that's just how they sound ? They seem to put out a weaker signal than most Strat single coils.

Thanks in Advance for Any Comments

Mark


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Post subject: Re: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:55 am
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markr01000 wrote:
Hello All,
I just had a conversation with a sales rep at a dealer in Queens NY that keeps some Custom Shops in stock.

He happens to have both a Masterbuilt Jeff Beck and a Custom Shop '59 Stratocaster NOS, 3-Tone Sunburstt in stock, and I'm curious about the '59 NOS. Neither he nor I could find any hard specs on it. Anybody know if it's been discontinued ? I thought that was a popular Custom Shop model ?
I asked him if he could characterize the difference in tone, and he stated the Dual Coil Noiseless are rounder and "creamier" sounding than a traditional single coil. Neither he nor I could find any hard specs on the '59 NOS.
I am in particular wondering what pickups are in it.
The Custom Shop Fat 50s ?

Please give me your subjective opinion on what you think these two different pickups sound like. Ceramic Noiseless Dual Coil vs (he and I are guessing) vs the Custom Shop Fat 50s. I appreciate your input.

I recently bought a Custom Shop JB.
Nobody down here had one for me to play and I ordered it sight unseen. I thought I was seeing a pickup problem (accidentally wired out of phase or something) but now I'm wondering if that's just how they sound ? They seem to put out a weaker signal than most Strat single coils.

Thanks in Advance for Any Comments

Mark


I can't comment on whether it has been discontinued or not. However, I can comment on the pickups but I shall avoid using dairy product terms.

Ceramic magnets in a stacked or side by side single coil slot configuration will give a brisker, more aggressive tone than those which use Alnico magnets. Those with Alnico magnets will tend to sound more 'musical' or rounded in terms of overall tone vs. the Ceramics. Note that I'm talking tonality here, not volume/power which has more to do with the number of coil windings, etc. of a pickup.

All Fender stacked designs are weak by comparison in terms of similar designed pickups.

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Post subject: Re: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 9:41 am
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Martian wrote:

I can't comment on whether it has been discontinued or not. However, I can comment on the pickups but I shall avoid using dairy product terms.

Ceramic magnets in a stacked or side by side single coil slot configuration will give a brisker, more aggressive tone than those which use Alnico magnets. Those with Alnico magnets will tend to sound more 'musical' or rounded in terms of overall tone vs. the Ceramics. Note that I'm talking tonality here, not volume/power which has more to do with the number of coil windings, etc. of a pickup.

All Fender stacked designs are weak by comparison in terms of similar designed pickups.


Thanks Martian. I appreciate your comments... we'll leave the lactose aside :)

Excellent description. Let me make sure I'm hearing everything correctly.
So the ceramics are a little peakier and perhaps a bit brighter than alnicos ? And perhaps don't exhibit as much of perceived compressed sound like some humbuckers ? Basically more single coiled sounding than other fender noiseless pickups ?
An when you say all Fender stacked designs are weak by comparison to similar designed pickups.... do you mean compared to traditional sized humbuckers (Gibson etc.) or again to other Fender noiseless pickups ?

Last thing... have you by chance played a Custom Shop Jeff Beck ? (you're a huge poster here, probably) if so I would appreciate your opinion of its tone vs a middle of the road (winding wise) Fender single coil. I was of the impression that the dual ceramics in the Jeff Beck sounded closer to a single coil than other Fender noiseless models, in fact closest in terms of both tone and amplitude. What's your impression ?

Thanks again for your answer.


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Post subject: Re: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 1:33 pm
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You've interpreted my comments perfectly up to here:

markr01000 wrote:
...And when you say all Fender stacked designs are weak by comparison to similar designed pickups.... do you mean compared to traditional sized humbuckers (Gibson etc.) or again to other Fender noiseless pickups?


Not only do I mean to full sized humbuckers but the entire Fender Noiseless line is weaker than say, similar designs of Duncan, DiMarzio, etc. Oftentimes, the Noiseless series aren't even as loud as many popular (and OEM) single coils.

Yes, I've played many of Custom Shop Jeff Beck models. For starters, the Hot Noiseless in these guitars aren't really 'hot', per se. I think they sound the best of all the models in the Noiseless series where yes, they capture a single coil nuance but to me, they don't come any where near what my idea of a great single coil sounds like. YMMV.

You're quite welcome.

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Post subject: Re: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:18 pm
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Martian wrote:
You've interpreted my comments perfectly up to here:

markr01000 wrote:
...And when you say all Fender stacked designs are weak by comparison to similar designed pickups.... do you mean compared to traditional sized humbuckers (Gibson etc.) or again to other Fender noiseless pickups?


Not only do I mean to full sized humbuckers but the entire Fender Noiseless line is weaker than say, similar designs of Duncan, DiMarzio, etc. Oftentimes, the Noiseless series aren't even as loud as many popular (and OEM) single coils.

Yes, I've played many of Custom Shop Jeff Beck models. For starters, the Hot Noiseless in these guitars aren't really 'hot', per se. I think they sound the best of all the models in the Noiseless series where yes, they capture a single coil nuance but to me, they don't come any where near what my idea of a great single coil sounds like. YMMV.

You're quite welcome.


THANK YOU !!!!!

This is exactly the information I was looking for.
And thank you for being so clear and direct. It's hard when we're trying to describe the tone of an instrument.

I'm afraid I owe Fender and the Custom Shop an apology.
I had heard the noiseless pickups the Jeff Beck were as hot, if not hotter than most Fender single coils. But you have exactly described the tone I am hearing. When I compare it to even a MIM , it sounds thinner, a bit hollow, and not nearly as hot or responsive. I thought for sure that there was a problem with my guitar. Now I think that's just how they sound.

I may have to eat some major crow here....

This is the chance you take having to order a model of guitar that you've never seen or played.

Again, Thank You VERY much.
You have been EXTREMELY helpful.


Mark


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 2:24 pm
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Now I've gotta decide if the mechanics of the JB (which I love) warrant installing different pickups, or should I return the JB and pick a different Custom Shop model........ or maybe two :wink:


Anybody know anything about this guitar ?

http://www.themusiczoo.com/product/1433/Fender-Custom-Shop-59-Stratocaster-NOS-3-Tone-Sunburst/[/url]


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Post subject: Re: Comments Please..... Ceramic Dual Coil Noiseless vs Fat
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 4:07 pm
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markr01000 wrote:
THANK YOU !!!!!

This is exactly the information I was looking for.
And thank you for being so clear and direct. It's hard when we're trying to describe the tone of an instrument.

I'm afraid I owe Fender and the Custom Shop an apology.
I had heard the noiseless pickups the Jeff Beck were as hot, if not hotter than most Fender single coils. But you have exactly described the tone I am hearing. When I compare it to even a MIM , it sounds thinner, a bit hollow, and not nearly as hot or responsive. I thought for sure that there was a problem with my guitar. Now I think that's just how they sound.

I may have to eat some major crow here....

This is the chance you take having to order a model of guitar that you've never seen or played.

Again, Thank You VERY much.
You have been EXTREMELY helpful.


Mark


Glad to be of assistance!

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Post subject:
Posted: Sun May 23, 2010 5:28 pm
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Wildwood Guitars and Dave's are two shops worth checking into. Both are Fender Showcase dealers and have great reputations assisting customers. There are other Showcase dealers too that you should checkout as well, they can be found here: http://www.fender.com/customshop/dealers/


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 3:10 am
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Thanks M40A1.

I've been looking on both sites today.
They both have a lot of CS models in stock.


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:09 pm
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M40A1 wrote:
Wildwood Guitars and Dave's are two shops worth checking into. Both are Fender Showcase dealers and have great reputations assisting customers. There are other Showcase dealers too that you should checkout as well, they can be found here: http://www.fender.com/customshop/dealers/


SOLD !

Troy at Wildwood was unbelievably helpful. Far above the call of duty....
I called inquiring about one of their '60 Relics or Dealer Select "10" '59 Heavy Relics. We started with the '60. Troy not only gave me a very detailed description of the guitar, he plugged it into a Deluxe and played it for me, calling out pickup selections as he went. Wow, nobody has ever offered to do that. It sounded great ! even over a cell phone ! I asked his opinion of the '59 which he had a number of, and he said "let me play them and find out". Wow. He called me back about an hour later saying he had played every one and had a particularly cherry one picked out for me and wanted me to hear it. He said it was a real standout, four stars. WOW !! I thought the '60 sounded incredible, but the '59 burnt a hole in my cell phone !! :) OMDL ! This thing sounded like a Holy Grail ! Over the PHONE.... glassy, but searing and singing. SOLD !!
I also purchased a '57 Champ Reissue from him (hand wired). I owned an original '60 Champ and still kick myself to this day for selling it. I can't wait to hear the '59 through the '57 Champ. Droooool.....

Thank you again to everyone here.
You've all been very helpful.
I came to some stupid conclusions early on, and you all set me straight.
I'm looking forward to ordering my next Custom Shop.... :D


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 5:28 pm
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markr01000, very interesting post. Ok, I'll let my own cat out of the bag. I have done a lot of research over the last six or so months trying to learn as much as I can about Fender Strats, all the while listening to a CD of Derek & The Dominos Live at the Fillmore East. I just could not get the sound of Eric Clapton and the guitar he was playing out of my mind. Incredible tones! I looked at some of the Clapton artist, CS, and MB guitars and dang near pulled the trigger on a Krause-built one at Wildwood in December. Only thing was I couldn't swing the cash so close to Christmas. So, I searched further and tried to learn some more on the way. Eventually I ended up back at Wildwood placing a MB '59 WW 10 relic on order with Bruce. The guitar is going to be built by Cruz in faded black with AAA quartersawn neck. Its going to be a long wait, but, like you, I am so stoked about it I can hardly sleep at night! Congrats on your purchase. :D


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Post subject:
Posted: Tue May 25, 2010 6:04 pm
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M40A1 wrote:
.... I'll let my own cat out of the bag..... a MB '59 WW 10 relic on order with Bruce. The guitar is going to be built by Cruz in faded black with AAA quartersawn neck.


Duuuuuude.

MB.... 8)


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