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Post subject: Muted E String on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:22 pm
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HI All

Quick question ref my custom shop Clapton Strat. My (treble) E string is not as loud as the other strings. More noticeable at gig volumes, specially the higher up the neck I go. Acoustically it sounds the same, the louder I have my amp the more noticeable it is. It can really spoil a solo.
Big volume jump between the B and the E string (Am using Kinman Traditional Pickups), same on any pick up selection so it really rules out the pick ups I would think. Also the treble side of the pick ups is adjusted to be closer to the strings than the Bass side.

Any suggestions

Cheers

Sparky


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Post subject: Re: Muted E String on Clapton Strat
Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:25 pm
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[quote="SparkyG"]HI All
Also the treble side of the pick ups is adjusted to be closer to the strings than the Bass side.

Consider string damping as a source. Go back to a standard Strat setup for both bridge and pickups and compare.

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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:46 pm
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ZZdoc

Thanks for the fast reply, I'll try that tomorrow. I think I'm understanding you here, are you saying the magnetic pull on the strings could be causing it?

It isn't just a sustain problem though even the initial volume of the note when it's picked is quite a bit lower in vol. will give it a go tomorrow

cheers\


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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 5:10 pm
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Are the kinemans a new install? They may not match the midboost too well. Infact that whole boost unit is a funny affair and seems to respond differently as the battery degrades. Try changing the battery first of all as its the cheapest and easiest to do. Then i'd try replacing one of the pickups with whatever came on the guitar originaly.

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Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:46 pm
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nikininja wrote:
Are the kinemans a new install? They may not match the midboost too well. Infact that whole boost unit is a funny affair and seems to respond differently as the battery degrades. Try changing the battery first of all as its the cheapest and easiest to do. Then i'd try replacing one of the pickups with whatever came on the guitar originaly.


That was my second thought, Niki, after the string damping. Original equipment on the current Clapton are the Fender Noiseless. Can't imagine why one would swap them out without care. I put SCN's on my special order guitar but that certainly did not effect the output.

Doc

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:36 am
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Noiseless pick ups do not dampen strings vibrations if too close to them, contrary to regular pick ups; they can be set as close as you wish to the strings without any such interference.


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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:32 am
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alainlafrance wrote:
Noiseless pick ups do not dampen strings vibrations if too close to them, contrary to regular pick ups; they can be set as close as you wish to the strings without any such interference.


Yep they react like humbuckers. I just wondered if the sonic balance of the OP's kinman pickups was reacting badly with the mid boost circuit.

Doc i often wondered about swapping scn's into my claptified guitar as i didnt like the tone of the VN's as they stand on their own. Could you share any insights to tonal changes scn's may make if any?

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:44 am
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Hi all

I'm finding the problem difficult to re-create at home with my practice amp. I can hear a little vol drop it seems worse using positions 2,3,4- so that would point to a problem with the middle pick up. I also notices that the Bridge pick up was quite high, so have adjusted them all down a little to see if that helps.

Ref the mid boost Cct I wasn't using that when the problem was occurring at my last gig. Also I have the TBX in the mid (indented) position. as i recall I was using position 4 ( Mid and Neck)

The Kinmans were fitted as soon as I had the guitar, I have used noiseless before and didn't care for them. Also i have Kinman Woodstocks in my 60's relic and they are great.

Will see if the adjustments mak any difference at the next gig.

Thanks

Sparky


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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:50 am
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nikininja wrote:
alainlafrance wrote:
.
Doc i often wondered about swapping scn's into my claptified guitar as i didnt like the tone of the VN's as they stand on their own. Could you share any insights to tonal changes scn's may make if any?


When I spec(k)ed out my CS, the SCN's had just emerged in the new MIA Deluxes. Fender ran a detailed article in their 'Frontline' publication as to how these pickups came to be designed by some guru they engaged and, as I've said elsewhere, were touted as the best thing since sliced bread and diming vintage tone in a noiseless pickup. Thus, I chose to put them in the guitar in lieu of the 'Noiseless' which were stock in the Clapton. (You have SCN's in your '57 Hotrod, isn't that correct?). The guitar also had a rosewood neck, if you recall. My overall memory of their tone was full and meaty and, of course, enhanced by the TBX/midboost circuitry. There again we have all the nebulous issues of body, neck, and fingerboard woods.

At best, comparisons would require a pair of EC Strats each fitted with the pickups in question running through the same amplifier, all EQ'd the same, not unlike the kind of 'shootouts' the guitar magazines perform when they review product.

Based upon Mike Eldred's comments, I wonder if replacing the TBX with a standard tone control would somehow enhance what the OP is seeking. As you suggested, he should also determine whether or not all the components of the circuitry are compatible with the Kinman's chosen, to yield the maxium performance. Just swapping out pickups is not the answer.

The kind of expertise required here is the sort demonstrated by the contributor who provided those wonderful circuitry analyses we enjoyed recently. There's a 'go to' person for sure. :idea:

Doc :wink:

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:15 am
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According to the Kinan Site his pickups are compatible with Clapton Strat Circuitry.

He says:
Can My Pickups be used in Clapton Strats?
In a word -YES (read the review by L-G Pekkari below). I have received many compliments from other EC Strat owners as well over the years so the practice has been well and truly proven to be a good decision. If you decide to remove the actives then ensure all pots adhere to my recommended 250K 'A' curve


.

Is it possible to be something other than the Pick ups causing the problem??

cheers


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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:52 am
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It sounds like a problem with the middle pickup. Is it reverse wound reverse polarity? (I've no experience with the much applauded kinmans). I had similar issues manifest as a after note distorted harmonic in positions 2&4. caused by the circuit being too powerfull for the ultra clean sound i was trying to get. I lowered the pickups flush to the scratchplate and also switched the mid and bridge pickups round. It allieviated the problems alot. Then i wired a resistor to the hot lead of the output jack to take the edge off the power some more. That coupled with the other things solved it. As i said before kinman pickups may be said to work with the midboost but will they give the definate response is a different matter. Gibson burstbuckers or SD screaming demons will work with the boost but may sound junk when coupled with it.

I also settled for that circuit just not sounding good in positions 2&4. The circuit is consantly on too. Even if the boost knob is on zero its never completely out of the circuit and therefore uses the battery too. Regular battery replacement is a good idea. Even when their not being used they run down.

I sincerely hope its not the kinmans. I too hate vintage noiseless and was hoping to get round to replacing them with something else someday.

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:59 pm
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[quote="SparkyG"]According to the Kinan Site his pickups are compatible with Clapton Strat Circuitry.
If you decide to remove the actives............................


When was this written?? The narrative may be referring to Lace Sensors as "the active's'.

Have you adhered to the recommendations regarding 'pots'??

Doc

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:26 pm
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As I understood it the instructions meant that if I remove the Mid boost Circuitry?? Maybe not.

I have a note out to Chris Kinman regarding the issue.
I'll post what he says.

Cheers


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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:47 pm
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Please do i'd love to see his input on the problem. Has the boost been removed from the guitar? If so the pots should be changed too. The volume pot on a clapton circuit is a 50k as opposed to the standard 250 or 500k.

Thanks Doc. :wink:

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Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:42 pm
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My EC Strat is as bought, I just swapped out the Pick ups. Chris recommend them to work well with the EC electronics and mid boost.
I wanted a guitar that could cover all bases for gigs where I only had room for one guitar. Normally I take my Relic Strat (With Kinman Woodstocks) and my PRS CU22.
We cover all styles and over 200 songs (all covers) so I need to be flexible.


Will let you know what he comes back with.

cheers


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