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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:02 am
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[Fully agree, be it modern guitars or vintage it's absolutely the same.
Still ,from time to time, you're happy not to have put all your savings into the Stock Market :wink: Alain[/quote]

....or SocGen :!: :x

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:41 am
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I do not agree that the Clapton tribute series has a more profound labor than the Gilmour Relic, I think we're just paying guitar center the million dollars that they spent for Blackie. Take the Gilmour for instance, there is a huge repair (I think it's on the right side bottom of the body) that looks like a hard blow along with a hole that was used to put some special components in the guitar, which was ultimately taken off, then you've got checking, you've got scrapping, you've a replication of the marks where a kahler bridge used to be, you've got a shortened tremolo arm, you've got wear marks of finger saline on the arm, and a much more complex electronics than the Clapton. Oh yeah the Clapton has the cigarrette marks, don't get me wrong I love Clapton, he's without a doubt my favorite guitar player, but I just don't think it's fair to 20 plus k for the Clapton, even if they were made by a masterbuilder or a senior masterbuilder. Fender is making me a Masterbuilt guitar for 4k, put some relic wear into and it would fetch for around 7 to 8 k, ohhh but put the name: Guitar Center with Clapton on the frosting, and there you go "20k plus". And the NOS is not within the rest of the custom artist models. Like I said the EC 2.5K, Jeff Beck 2.5 k these are the prices the NOS should fetch for and the Relic at the most 3.5k, but we all love the artists and the guitars, ergo we pay these ridiculous amounts. I was specifically told that the Gimour is one of the first guitars where Fender told their dealers that there was to be no other price to sell the guitar other than retail. Who know, maybe after the euphoria pases, this will change.

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:47 am
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[quote="stipe_mills@hotmail.com"]I do not agree that the Clapton tribute series has a more profound labor than the Gilmour Relic.

It seems to me that the paint wear on the Clapton would be more labor intensive to create. I was not aware that the scars for the Kahler replacement and the XLR connector repair which Dave did himself were replicated on the relic.

We agree on the likely scenario with respect to the price of the Clapton, and considering what the SRV and Malmsteen will go for, we're likely in the ball part for something requiring that level of cosmetics. The 'Blackie' should have come in around the same price.

The team build guitars are priced more in the high 2's and low 3's. Again, for a masterbuild guitar, NOS or relic, it seems to be in the ball park. The lack of a discount from list to retail is an internal policy the rationale for which will likely never be shared with us.

Doc

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:51 am
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Good common ground on some topics.
Thanks man!!


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Post subject: Re: DG Relic vs. NOS - which is the collector piece
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:19 am
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Would someone with a Gilmour Relic kindly post photos of the top of the guitar behind the bridge and the bottom of the guitar below the jack? I'd like to see the details of the repair replication pursuant to the prior discussions.

Please also remember to post your serial numbers on the other thread so Hopkins can collect the data for us.

Thanks :wink:

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:32 am
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stipe_mills@hotmail.com wrote:
Good common ground on some topics.
Thanks man!!


On further thought about pricing, consider this. Gilmour had very specific requirements with regard to the design and marketing of this product. It may very well be that they came to agreement on a "fair" price point consistent with the history of pricing Masterbuilt guitars and the prix fix policy to assure that his audience was treated in a fair and equitable fashion.

Doc :wink:

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:56 am
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Yea, I would have liked Clapton striking a deal with Fender and GC when Blackie came out.
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Post subject: Re: DG Relic vs. NOS - which is the collector piece
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:15 am
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zzdoc wrote:
Would someone with a Gilmour Relic kindly post photos of the top of the guitar behind the bridge and the bottom of the guitar below the jack? I'd like to see the details of the repair replication pursuant to the prior discussions.

Please also remember to post your serial numbers on the other thread so Hopkins can collect the data for us.

Thanks :wink:


Check this out and remember to watch in high quality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNxxFr4292w

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Post subject: Re: DG Relic vs. NOS - which is the collector piece
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:32 am
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bluestube wrote:
zzdoc wrote:
Would someone with a Gilmour Relic kindly post photos of the top of the guitar behind the bridge and the bottom of the guitar below the jack? I'd like to see the details of the repair replication pursuant to the prior discussions.

Please also remember to post your serial numbers on the other thread so Hopkins can collect the data for us.

Thanks :wink:


Check this out and remember to watch in high quality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNxxFr4292w


Thanks! That was well done and some good shots of the Relic!! :wink: 8)


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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:27 pm
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The David Gilmour is in the range of the Rory Gallagher let's say.

The Eric Clapton in another range like the SRV#1,the Jeff Beck or the Andy Summers, which are all Masterbuilt. That's why DG refused to have a Tribute Guitar like them and insisted on a more reasonnably priced Teambuilt with some little compromises.

Very little to compare. Nothing detrimental to the DG -I'm buying one - but as a player not as a collector.

You may have no idea how detailed the EC Blackie is , not only cosmetically but within the electronics, having to find a company in a position to make againthose large copper shielding foils just like the original had. Just an example.

The DG is "in the park "compared to the original; the EC is "on the diamond" as you may say in The States. :wink:

Alain


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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:42 pm
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Just an additional thought, the Jeff Beck Esquire and Andy Summers Tele cost 10 grand not 20 grand. I understand and apperciate the great detail work done on blackie including the duck bros case, as well as with respect to the 56-70 electronics of the pickups and electronics, but 10 grand more, even if its a masterbuilt tribute series guitar, it is still way more expensive, so much that it falls out the range of the above mentioned guitars, including the SRV Lenny 15k or with the Malmsteen 12.5k.

If you get a Relic, take a look at the amazing job they did replicating it, its really amazing and for the $ it's right there with the Blackie, and lets not even discuss the fact that Gilmour received 4-5 different prototypes before he was happy with the sound, that didn't happen with Clapton's blackie by the way. The replication of the electronics on this guitar is also great just trying to come up with the same type pickups , well those of us who own one thank David for not striking a deal with GC.

M.


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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:52 pm
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Just an additional thought, the Jeff Beck Esquire and Andy Summers Tele cost 10 grand not 20 grand. I understand and apperciate the great detail work done on blackie including the duck bros case, as well as with respect to the 56-70 electronics of the pickups and electronics, but 10 grand more, even if its a masterbuilt tribute series guitar, it is still way more expensive, so much that it falls out the range of the above mentioned guitars, including the SRV Lenny 15k or with the Malmsteen 12.5k.

If you get a Relic, take a look at the amazing job they did replicating it, its really amazing and for the $ it's right there with the Blackie, and lets not even discuss the fact that Gilmour received 4-5 different prototypes before he was happy with the sound, that didn't happen with Clapton's blackie by the way. The replication of the electronics on this guitar is also great just trying to come up with the same type pickups , well those of us who own one thank David for not striking a deal with GC.

M.


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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:48 pm
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I saw THE black strat when it was at the Hard Rock in Texas, and have many pictures of it, stripped of many of it's knobs, etc. When I first saw the close up pics of the Relic a couple of weeks ago, I could not believe the job the Fender boys did on this guitar. IMHO, it is worth what you pay for it, either NOS or Relic. I plan to get one when I have the means. Namely due to the passion that went into it's creation from all involved, from David on down. It is special!

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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:26 pm
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[quote="stipe_mills@hotmail.com"]

Thanks for the video on this. I was not aware that they had detailed the cosmetics in such accuracy.

Alain has several points well taken and, being the collector that he is, I would defer to him. I also have the benefit of impressions given from the
GC person with whom I do all my business who, at the time the Blackie Replica was marketed, had the opportunity to handle both guitars. To concur with Alain, the guitar was 'dimed.' Even Clapton was amazed.

Remember as well, this was Fender's project with David. With 'Blackie' Eric was already out of the picture. The guitar was owned by GC.

Doc

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Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:21 am
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I'm sorry Doc but that is exactly my point. The fact that Clapton DID NOT contribute or was involved in the Blackie project is the more reason not to have such a steep price. I would think in my opinion, that if I'm buying a "signature" guitar I'd like the artist to get involved in the project since it's his name that's on stake. Take Jimmy Page for instance when the first Les Pauls came out in 1995 he sued Gibson becuase neither quality nor the specs where anywhere near his beloved Number 1. I'm sorry I love Clapton to death but without him being closely involved as David or Jimmy where I cannot justify Blackie's price tag, but here comes the irony, I would have paid the money for that guitar, and that's what GC counted on. Now can we all say $3,700,000 dollars? cause that's what GC received on November 24, 2006, with a portion being sent to Crossroads, I'm thinking GC at least kept 50%. Not bad for a day's work and a guitar that doesn't even bear Eric's hand signature (see Gibson ES-335 which does and Martin's Belleza Nera, Belleza Bianca, and 000-42ECMR) and was replicated by three different masterbuilders, Cruz, English and Kendrick, I'm wondering if there could be any differences in each model. Probably not right?
Cheers and thanks for all your comments this is a lot of fun guys,
M.


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