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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:42 am
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stipe_mills@hotmail.com wrote:
HEY DOC!!!!! Thanks a lot for taking the time to answer my question in such great detail. My dealer has assured me that he will put me in contact with Todd and we'll get to the bottom of this.Thanks again, M.


That's why we are here. Do let us know what you learn. As I had observed, we really got into this thing earlier in the year. One of our number had this new Clapton and he was really agitated about whether or not the guitar he had paid considerable bucks for fit the specs. If you search the threads you'll have hours of interesting reading ahead of you.

There's one thing you might ask Todd about as an aside. Remind him of those three "as built for" he did in 2003. He may have memory of them. Ask him what contractual obligations the company has which would prevent them from repeating such an order, (which was denied me) and how might that guitar differ from what he is building for you. That question would really zero in on the issue.

I wouldn't want to rain on Alain's parade, nor the other two collectors, with respect to this, but it would sure clear up a host of unanswered questions and a great deal of speculation. i.e 'how different are Eric's stage guitars really??"

Thanks.

Doc. :wink:

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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:02 am
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Thanks Doc, mainly what I wanted was a guitar similar or the same to the one he used for the Cream reunions (also featured in the Disraeli Geras Classic Albums DVD), the clasic black and white with vintage noiseless and the uncommonly used AAA flamed maple neck, but I'll also tap into the issue you mention with Tod. Those three he built in 2003, is there anything that you know or speculate that they differ from the ones the CS builds?. I know for instance that the Pewter he used for the Crossroads festival in 2007, is not a color you can get from the CS as off today, unless I pressume you order it Masterbuilt.
Thanks,
M.


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Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:12 am
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stipe_mills@hotmail.com wrote:
Thanks Doc, mainly what I wanted was a guitar similar or the same to the one he used for the Cream reunions (also featured in the Disraeli Geras Classic Albums DVD), the clasic black and white with vintage noiseless and the uncommonly used AAA flamed maple neck, but I'll also tap into the issue you mention with Tod. Those three he built in 2003, is there anything that you know or speculate that they differ from the ones the CS builds?. I know for instance that the Pewter he used for the Crossroads festival in 2007, is not a color you can get from the CS as off today, unless I pressume you order it Masterbuilt.
Thanks,
M.


According to Alain, the order from these three collectors was "as built for Eric". One of them backed out and Alain was able to acquire it. He claims there are subtle differences in the neck. For me, that neck profile is key which is why, after swapping out my '97 for my CS, and being so disappointed, I seized on the opportunity to acquire the '89 which appeared on Ebay in August. The EC guitar was first offered in '88. I can't quote you the serial number presently, but it is a very low SE....the first signature series guitar.

When I asked my GC contact person to submit an order requesting an "as built for" guitar he copied me the reply from Fender which stated" due to contractual obligations we cannot comply with such a request.''

So it begs the question..."What's changed?"


Thanks.

Doc.

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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:20 pm
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"When I asked my GC contact person to submit an order requesting an "as built for" guitar he copied me the reply from Fender which stated" due to contractual obligations we cannot comply with such a request.''

not correct. You can order the guitar just like EC gets them. the only thing they won't do right now is the custom Ferrari silver color he uses.

I was one of the original three in 2003 that placed that order. Alain has one second hand through a friend in Chicago. Mine (#TK368) is no longer with me, but I've since had two more built by TK to the exact same specs, the latest one arriving two months ago.

The neck shape is really special on those guitars, but it's not something super-secret and something that cannot be done ever again. Your Guitar Center contact is totally wrong.

Anyway, It's a slim hard-V based off a circa April 1996 neck that EC liked, according to Todd. His exact description to me was "10/56, slightly slimmer". I believe Todd said the original neck was done by Jay Black at the CS. The guitar EC played in '05 for the Cream reunion had that neck.

The guitar was great. The other two guys didn't seem to like the slim V shape... I thinks it's wonderful and much different than the production models at the time. (These were built before the Clapton Custom Artist model went on sale in January 2004, which has the same neck spec if I recall) So the neck shape and having no TBX tone was very very unique at the time.

But there's nothing mythical about these three guitars... it's funny to read about them in this thread. At the time three of us got together and ordered the same guitar (so we could get a small price break). The directive given to Todd on all three was "build them like you would for EC". Nothing more than that. I think what made these special, if anything. is that if you all can remember back to 2003... the Masterbuilt program was a little more unique, and special. From about 2005 until a month ago it seems everyone got rich and boaught guiatrs like crazy!

But in 2003, to have a guitar built by Clapton's builder was really incredible. Nowadays, there are so many Masterbuilt and Custom Shop guitars on the market, and I'll bet Todd has built hundreds of EC Strats since then. They are wonderful instruments, and Todd is great, but the unique-ness of the whole concept has been diminished since everyone and their brother has been able to buy them. When the three of us got those guitars we were leading the way over at the FDP. Since then there are many guys over there with several Masterbuilt instruments.

details: Mine had a signature on the back of the headstock. The other two did not have a signature I don't think. No TBX control. though this is now standard, but in 2003 it was not common. Slim hard V-neck, with hardly any finish on it. Mine was a great guitar and it is the one I've owned that I should never had sold, but financial hardship will make you do some strange things. Fortunately I've been able to get two more since I sold TK368.


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Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:30 pm
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Your history is most informative and rounds out a great deal with respect to my interest, and likely that of others in the Forum on this matter. Alain speaks very highly of his possession and we have actually shared some details on these neck measurements.

An interesting note on the TBX. It was a hot topic in these threads in early spring. One of us had purchased a CS Clapton which HAD a TBX in contrast to the online specs. We kicked this around quite a bit to no firm conclusion, and the people at Fender were not very helpful.

With respect to my original inquiry to Fender based upon your prior experience, I had forwarded to me the very email from Fender which refused my request. Thus, the reply did not come via second hand news, but rather directly from 'the horse's mouth" so to speak. My GC rep is very well placed in the organization and even he seemed rather taken aback by the response. I did not explore the matter any further.

For purposes of discussion, my present acquisition, a carefully played and preserved 1989 Pewter carries serial # SE9000891, thus I consider it rather down in the production line for this then very new and "first" Signature series guitar. I certainly cannot say this authoritatively but there is something about the 'feel' of this neck and the tone from these Sensors which, in my gut, gives me the idea that these earlier models were built 'better' in that they were really top of the line back then, so to speak.

As you may have read, I owned a '97 "Blackie' which went towards the CS guitar I had built, I am very preferential to these guitars and to this wonderful satin finished neck which fits my hand to a "T". I am not satisfied that the production versions of the "Vintage Noiseless" Claptons are quite the same. Sadly , the CS did not get my guitar 'quite right' and it is making way for a new Gilmour which I should have in my hands by Saturday.

Thanks for sharing. Again, your input is greatly appreciated.

Doc

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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:36 am
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The neck shape is really special on those guitars, but it's not something super-secret and something that cannot be done ever again. Your Guitar Center contact is totally wrong.
Anyway, It's a slim hard-V based off a circa April 1996 neck that EC liked, according to Todd. His exact description to me was "10/56, slightly slimmer". I believe Todd said the original neck was done by Jay Black at the CS. The guitar EC played in '05 for the Cream reunion had that neck.


Do I read above correctly as April '96. Can you clarify that a bit?


I have also noted with interest, the neck on the new '57 Vintage Hotrod. I've played it , and recommended it to 'nikininja' who acquired the guitar and loves it. I would be interested in your take as how it compares to the Clapton in your possession and, if you have had access to the Tribute Blackie, that neck. I am speculating that perhaps they have now actually used that neck shape on a production guitar without fanfare.

Thanks for your continued input.

Doc.

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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:37 pm
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I've not had a chance to play one of the Blackie models, but I've talked to a few people about it and TK also. It is slightly chunkier than the current EC neck spec from I've been told.


Nice to hear you have an early Clapton. They are great guitars! Better than current product models for sure. I have a Torino Red EC 1988, SN# SE80001XX. Another early one. These early neck shapes are what I imagine was Clapton's early preference . It is very different from the current production or Custom Shop spec, and absolutely nothing like Eric Clapton's current specification.


Back to your request, I think what you may have run into is the "official response". I don't see why this would be the case, there is nothing magical they do for EC from what I understand... maybe it's part of the "mystery" that Fender and Lee Dickson like to promote. My advice... order a Masterbuilt guitar and put on the work order that you want to discuss the guitar with TK before he begins. You'll get what you want. Also, watch where you order... if you want to PM I will discuss price off the board here, but I can point you in the right direction.

Regarding April 96. Yes this is exact. I still have his email from from February 17, 2004. He said at the time it was thinner than the line model. Thinner front to back and less shoulder (more V). PM me for more info... I would prefer not to publish private emails on a public board.

Regardless, the neck shape can still be done. Todd has built me two more since 2003. They are exactly the same as the "triplets" neck shapes.

Here is a photo of Todd from November 2003 when he finished all three:
Image

Here's a picture of TK368:
Image


Here's a link to more pictures of TK368. You'll get a good look at the neck shape:

http://s99.photobucket.com/albums/l282/tbr96/TK%20EC/


Last edited by StratoKazter on Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:50 pm
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[quote="StratoKazter"]

That's a very fine postscript to this entire question and most interesting to get the background on what you call 'the triplets'. I am likely going to be satisfied with what I have on hand at the present. As you have confirmed my own personal impressions of these early Claptons, this will definitely be a keeper. Though I purchased the guitar off Ebay, I knew that neck was right the moment I played it.

Thanks again for your input. I trust the others will also have appreciated your contribution and those photos are really fab.

Doc

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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 7:34 am
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Hi StratoKazter,

Nice to see you here :D
Good that you posted the photo of the triplets as I lost mine. No one can tell which is which...
Mine was TK367 so just next to yours.
When delivered there was a EC sig on the back of that one but our friend from Chicago sent it back to Todd to have it pulled off.


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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:58 am
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[quote="alainlafrance"]
:?: :?: Alain: Looking closely at that finish, is that what Lee Dickson refers to as the "black with the sparkle" somewhere in the Christie's catalog narrative?

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Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:04 pm
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Can't find where in the catalog...
But it's a different colour from black I may say dark blue with dark green sparkles


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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:51 pm
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Hi Alain... nice to see you here also. I think I may spend more time over here in the future.

re: the color... there was a big discussion about this before we ordered the guitars. Lots of confusion. Accoridng to Fender at the time the color we wanterd was called "Mercedes Blue", but according to Lee Dickson it was "black/green" "Mercedes black/green" or somehting like C36 black/green. We were confused until Mark Kendrick chimed in and confirmed the color "mercedes blue" was the same thing as "black/green". He would know... he was the guy who built the original guitars for EC.

I think its more of a blue/green to my eyes... no black in there... but it does look black in certain lighting.


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Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 9:55 pm
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alainlafrance wrote:
Can't find where in the catalog...
But it's a different colour from black I may say dark blue with dark green sparkles


Pg 85 of the Christie's Catalog in talking about the "Rainbow Rod"....
"this one was used on stage ,,,,,,mostly as a backup to the black one
(with the blue sparkle.

I was going to ask, but it has been answered, if this was not "mercedes blue."

Doc

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Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:26 am
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p 85 I get a close up of a Zematis guitar :?:


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Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:00 pm
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this has been one of the most informative, and my personal favorite, posts on the forums that I have found so far.

I do have one follow-up question. Stratokazter seemed to imply that the triple neck profile that was used was subsequently used for the CS Clapton version (i.e. Teambuilt) that is now available. Does this mean that there is not something distinctive about the triple neck relative to the current CS versions?

thanks!


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