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Post subject: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from guitar
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 3:21 pm
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Hi, I own a HRD first edition and I have this issue: If I connect my unmodified fender american standard strat to the amp, turn the amp on, touch the strings with a hand o maybe with my arm and with the other hand I touch a metallic, grounded object (for example the motorized fader of my usb controller) I feel an electric shock on the hand touching the metallic object. It also happens that if I am already touching a grounded object and inadvertedly touched with my arm the strings, I feel the stinging of the electric shock in the point my arm touches the string.
I searched the web and initially I tought it was an issue with my strat, but then I tried to replicate the issue with an Ibanez archtop and I still feel the same shock.
I also notice that when using the amp at loud volume I can hear some sort of poping sound that every sometimes but not always, can be heard when my hand comes in touch of the strings. I don't know if it's related to the other issue by the way.
Anybody can give me a hint?

Thank you!
Squareknot


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:00 pm
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Immediately cease using that amp until you can get it checked out by a qualified amp tech. You are playing with potentially lethal voltages here, don't take the risk!!!


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:23 pm
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cthulhu wrote:
Immediately cease using that amp until you can get it checked out by a qualified amp tech. You are playing with potentially lethal voltages here, don't take the risk!!!


+1000

Anything to the contrary is whistling past the graveyard.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:16 pm
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Have you tried sticking your tounge on the strings? LOL! Just kid'n man...I agree with these guy, have the amp checked out.
May wanna try a different outlet first, in another house/building...could even be a ground issue with your particular residence, or wherever this is happening.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:27 am
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Simple; your amp is missing a ground. Either the third prong from the electrical plug is missing, or you have no ground on your outlet. This is also what people get for improperly using a two-prong converter. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:21 am
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shimmilou wrote:
This is also what people get for improperly using a two-prong converter. :wink:


But it gives them a leg up on the competition when it's time to pass out the annual Darwin Awards.

:lol:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:50 pm
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:33 am
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Brand new amp on waranty or second hand amp ?


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:39 am
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Well, I thought I would get some more advanced answers on this official forum.. I had already found similar answers on other non official forums, but honestly I don't really believe that fender would actually make amps that can so easily shock to death people or that shock players if they don't connect grounded plugs, anyway my amp was new when I bought it several years ago but I didn't use it too much since I mainly practice at home and the first edition of the HRD has the known high volume issue. My wall plug is actually grounded and as I said the amp has not been used much but I remember at the very beginning I already heard the popping sound, but as I used the amp during rehearsals I didn't thouch metal grounded objects so I can't say it did shock already at the time even if I believe so.
I thought I would get some addressing to some specific issue I could check for, since my brother is practical with electrical devices and I could ask him to look for it before asking for some more professional intervention, after all amp modding is a common habit and there should be lot of people out there who are experienced with amp circuitry and common issues


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 6:09 am
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squareknot wrote:
Well, I thought I would get some more advanced answers on this official forum.. I had already found similar answers on other non official forums, but honestly I don't really believe that fender would actually make amps that can so easily shock to death people or that shock players if they don't connect grounded plugs,
A amp may come defective and a good ground may help . It is not about fender

anyway my amp was new when I bought it several years ago but I didn't use it too much since I mainly practice at home and the first edition of the HRD has the known high volume issue. My wall plug is actually grounded
Look grounded with their 3 prongs , did the ground work ?

and as I said the amp has not been used much but I remember at the very beginning I already heard the popping sound, but as I used the amp during rehearsals I didn't thouch metal grounded objects so I can't say it did shock already at the time even if I believe so.
I thought I would get some addressing to some specific issue I could check for, since my brother is practical with electrical devices and I could ask him to look for it before asking for some more professional intervention, after all amp modding is a common habit and there should be lot of people out there who are experienced with amp circuitry and common issues


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:12 am
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Have you verified that your outlet ground is good with a outlet ground tester? You can get them at any hardware store that carries electrical equipment.

And sure, Fender isn't going to sell amps that are of defective design in the grounding department; things break though. Of course, if the amp isn't connected using a grounded plug, then all bets are off you sort of imply that might be the case. And it might not be the amp, which is why you need to verify the electrical system ground with the tester.

But if it is the amp, regardless of how handy your brother is at electrical stuff, keep in mind that you really are dealing with a potentially (no pun intended) lethal situation. You might do a search for musicians who have died because of the problem you are describing. Do you really want to trust that to your brother who's pretty handy with electrical stuff but hasn't worked on a tube amp before? Or do you think it might be wiser to pay a professional to fix it?


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:59 pm
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squareknot wrote:
Well, I thought I would get some more advanced answers on this official forum.. I had already found similar answers on other non official forums, but honestly I don't really believe that fender would actually make amps that can so easily shock to death people or that shock players if they don't connect grounded plugs, anyway my amp was new when I bought it several years ago but I didn't use it too much since I mainly practice at home and the first edition of the HRD has the known high volume issue. My wall plug is actually grounded and as I said the amp has not been used much but I remember at the very beginning I already heard the popping sound, but as I used the amp during rehearsals I didn't thouch metal grounded objects so I can't say it did shock already at the time even if I believe so.
I thought I would get some addressing to some specific issue I could check for, since my brother is practical with electrical devices and I could ask him to look for it before asking for some more professional intervention, after all amp modding is a common habit and there should be lot of people out there who are experienced with amp circuitry and common issues

It isn't properly grounded. Have your practical brother look for that.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:00 pm
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While this is an official Fender site, Fender technicians seldom comment unless it's a digital or software problem.
There are very experienced techs here that do comment, however.
Their simple advice is going to be the same across all forums in this instance.
Plug in a instrument cord into the input and unplug the amp. Connect an ohmmeter between the U ground pin and the ground of the instrument cable. It should measure less than one ohm.
You can use a small inspection mirror to look at the solder joint of the input jack ground pin. Cracked solder on the jack is a common failure. Conceivably, the ground failure could be at the jack. Usually it makes the signa cut out also
Other than that, a HRDX has a U ground wire that is attached to the chassis on the left end of the amp. The input jack is grounded with a wire to the board on the right side to the chassis. There is very little in the way of other components that can affect chassis leakage voltages. If the soldering on the jack is good and those screws are tight and the wires are intact, the grounding of the amp will be safe.

Any other issue will be in the ground wiring of the house. The grounds should be tightened and inspected at the outlet, the breaker panel, and the ground stake below the panel by a qualified person..

All transformer powered appliances radiate voltage into the chassis to some extent. A good tight ground will send these leakage voltages to the U ground to make the unit safe.
This is especially important with digital components as the high frequencies in the switching power supplies radiate more voltage into the chassis than transformer powered appliances.


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:29 pm
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Thank you TimsAudio, that's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for when I wrote on this forum. You were very detailed and you appear experienced with the HRDX. Thank you also to the other who expressed their opinion, I think that's part of the game and has its usefulness. Now I have enough material to move toward the solution of my issue, may it be through the help of my brother or that of a qualified technician.
Hope this thread can also be of help to other people looking for a solution to similar issues.

SK


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Post subject: Re: Hot Rod Deluxe - first edition - electric shock from gui
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:15 am
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I had the same issue at my house and went throughout the whole house until I found a grounded outlet. I bought a tester from Ace Hdw. for $10 bucks and it tells you the ground status of each outlet. When you are plugged in to an open ground and touch the strings or any metal parts on the guitar, you become the ground and therefore are susceptible to electric shock. Wait to plug in until you find a proper ground, Try your kitchen or bathroom as most of these rooms built after 1960 are grounded and then all the other rooms until you find one that is. Hope this helps, but otherwise don't use it until you spend a worthwhile $10.00

Peace!

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