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Post subject: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 12:53 pm
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Not a whole lot discussed on these boards about the Princeton Chorus (less than one full page of results using the Search feature)---and zero discussed about playing an Electric/Acoustic on one...more specifically, a clip on sound hole pickup.

First of all, let me start by saying I am aware of all the "Acoustic" specific amps out there, be it Fender or any other brand...I want to inquire specifically on the Princeton Chorus amp even though it is designed for electric guitar.

Has anyone had any experience playing a Princeton Chorus?
Has anyone experimented with an acoustic guitar through one?
Since the amp is meant for electric guitars, would playing an acoustic with electric pickup through it sound like crap?
Would it hurt the amp and/or speakers in any way?
Would a Hum Canceling pickup be my best choice?

I might have some more questions....but I'll let the conversation take off, and maybe I will remember them along the way. LOL.

I have a GREAT opportunity to pick up a Princeton Chorus in Mint condition for next to nothing, and I am gonna pull the trigger on the deal---but I'm just trying to get an idea of the versatility, and whether I should buy an acoustic pickup as well.

Thanks for your help and input.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 7:20 pm
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I never tried it with acoustic but I like my Princeton chorus. Pricing is insanely good for what great Amps these are.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:36 pm
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I have been trying for years to find the "best" compromise for playing an acoustic guitar thru an electric guitar-based amp. I have tried thru a Super Champ XD and currently thru a DRRI (likely the closest to your Princeton).

The most onerous problems are feedback, booming, and sympathetic string droning. It ruins your tone at best and overwhelms everything at the worst. My acoustic is a Martin with under-saddle pickup (Martin/Fishman), but I believe that a sound hole pickup will perform similarly.

These are the three "solutions" that have worked the best for me (but remember, "best" not great):

1) acoustic guitar thru a Boss GE-7 Equalizer with some kind of compressor (I use an old Roctron Big Crush), but you'll have to play with the cabling order. The Boss has a Level slider which helps to adjust for plectrum versus finger-picking.

2) I recently found a used Boss AD-5 Acoustic Instrument Processor, and it is very versatile. This box has been the closest to preserving an "acoustic" tone with my under-saddle pickup. I have been able to turn up the volume higher on the DRRI than I could with the #1 setup above before tone reductions set up (though a little compression might make it better - I'll have to try that).

3) the dj at my brother's wedding put me in to his PA system, and made my guitar sound fairly acceptable in the hall (note: my guitar, not my crappy voice that was singing my composition thru the mic, but that's another issue....)

No matter what you do, an acoustic thru an electric amp will just not sound "right", or even very "acoustic". The pickups are the culprit, I believe. They distill an acoustic tone into an electric signal, and make your acoustic sound like an electric with feedback. A microphone is optimal for tone as long as you stand at the perfect point for it to pick up the sound. If you move around, only a pickup will work, and the limitations begin from there. So, if you can accept the compromises (live, really how discriminating can you be?), a pickup is still the only way to go. And our tone search continues ...........................................


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 7:13 am
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Quote:
I like my Princeton chorus. Pricing is insanely good for what great Amps these are.

I've been reading TONS of reviews on them all over the net...and seems everyone agrees with you.
I have the Ultimate Chorus amp, and I absolutely love the built-in Chorus effect versus a Chorus pedal through a single speaker amp...because the effect bounces back and forth between speakers (stereo).

The Ultimate Chorus is 100 watts through two 12's (definitely think that would be too much for an Acoustic)...and the Princeton Chorus is 50 watts between two 10's (why I think if it's gonna work, this would be a better option).

Quote:
The most onerous problems are feedback, booming, and sympathetic string droning. It ruins your tone at best and overwhelms everything at the worst.
This is what I am most afraid of. I am contemplating a Seymour Duncan Woody HC Hum-Canceling Soundhole Pickup because of two reasons: one, it is fairly inexpensive at $50.00, and two, it is housed in maple cover and double potted---to hopefully deaden some of the issues you have been experimenting with (anyone has experience with the SD Woody HC, I'd like to hear about it).

Is the "feedback" (do you think), more of a 'too close to the amp' thing (the pickup I am looking at has a 10' chord)...or is it from too vicious of string vibration, etc...?
The 'booming' and 'string droaning' are probably much harder to figure out (I'm guessing)---does it do that with the Saddle Pickup through an actual Acoustic amp? I don't believe I have ever heard a Saddle Pickup in any situation...I HAVE seen them on-line...but really don't know how they work compared to a sound hole mounted pickup. Seems (to me) like they'd pick up more vibration from the body of the guitar, rather than directly from the strings?

Quote:
Boss GE-7 Equalizer with some kind of compressor (I use an old Roctron Big Crush)...............Boss AD-5 Acoustic Instrument Processor
See....now it's getting expensive. It would be nice to pay the $50.00 for the pickup, and leave it at that....but if I end up having to invest in a bunch of equipment just to make it "tolerable", I don't know.

Quote:
A microphone is optimal for tone as long as you stand at the perfect point for it to pick up the sound. If you move around, only a pickup will work, and the limitations begin from there. So, if you can accept the compromises (live, really how discriminating can you be?), a pickup is still the only way to go. And our tone search continues ...........................................
Yah; I have a PA, and play through a mic (and it sounds good), but I DO hate being stuck in one spot and making sure the sound hole is lined up perfectly with the mic. Too much movement on my part, and the sound fades in and out as the guitar moves away from the mic.

I appreciate your input. Sounds to me like regardless the combination of pickup and amp, there is bound to be a degree of experimentation and more money to spend.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:00 am
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The Princeton chorus still uses a tone stack type tone control. It is designed to distort through the midrange. Not good for acoustic guitar. It also has clipping diodes ala distortion circuit. Also not good for acoustic. It does have low gain in the clean channel, which is good for acoustic.
Try out some SS bass amps. They are built similarly to an acoustic with clean tone circuits and are less expensive than acoustic amps.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:25 am
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Quote:
The Princeton chorus still uses a tone stack type tone control. It is designed to distort through the midrange. Not good for acoustic guitar. It also has clipping diodes ala distortion circuit. Also not good for acoustic
Dang....see this is the info I was looking for, but not wanting to find. LOL! That blows.

Quote:
It does have low gain in the clean channel, which is good for acoustic.
Little bit of good news....but makes it sound like I'd have to mic the amp. Kinda defeats the whole purpose of the pickup and amp.

Quote:
Try out some SS bass amps. They are built similarly to an acoustic with clean tone circuits and are less expensive than acoustic amps.
Yah...that ain't going to happen. I was interested in the Chorus effect more than anything...and the amp would be useful for my electric guitars as well as (I was hoping) my acoustics. I have zero use for a Bass amp beyond trying it out with the acoustic. I had a Bass at one time...just seemed like it was missing two strings.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:31 am
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Technical discussions of this amp's performance aside, I'm going to let you in on the "dirty little secret" regarding all of these early models (Princeton Chorus, Stereo Princeton Chorus, Ultimate Princeton Chorus, etc).

These amps haven't been made in over a dozen years now and many of their proprietary components are no longer available. Specifically I'm referring to the chorus module, the reverb module, and the overdrive module. If any of those modules flake out and a replacement cannot be found, the amp will be deadlined and what you'll end up is a really large door-stop.

You might want to look for something a little newer and which is still logistically supportable. A dedicated acoustic guitar amp of contemporary design makes a whole lot more sense in regards to performance and ease of repair.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 12:18 pm
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I hear ya on the parts being difficult if not impossible to find...but disagree with the "large door stop" scenario---if the Chorus module was to fail, and a replacement couldn't be found; I would have a Solid State amp without Chorus, because the feature has it's own "on/off" switch, and the amp would still operate as a 50 watt / two 10" speaker amp.

But, you are correct. It is starting to sound like if I want to "electrify" my acoustic...I should stick with an acoustic guitar amp. There is ALWAYS one on Craigslist in my area if I decide to pursue that avenue.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:46 pm
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No you won't, the amp will effectively be TlTS UP. Even when switched off, all of the pre-amp signals pass through each of those effects modules. But do as you will -- when the sonofabitch crashes and burns, no one here will offer you a dry shoulder to cry on.

Good day

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 5:11 am
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Quote:
But do as you will -- when the sonofabitch crashes and burns, no one here will offer you a dry shoulder to cry on.
First and foremost; I wouldn't come here to "cry on anyone's shoulder".......and secondly, I find it pompous of you to feel like you can speak for everybody. Calm down.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:10 am
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I speak the truth, pal. That you don't wish to hear or heed it is your own business. I offer advice here only to keep the foolish out of trouble.


As for "calm", I'm as calm as a new daisy gently swaying in the breeze of a warm spring day. It isn't my money that might end up being flushed down the terlet so I don't have a dog in this fight.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:28 pm
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White Dog, don't worry about Retroverbial. He works on amps and is biased towards the ones he can repair and people are willing to put money into. I think he thinks he is giving Fender some sort of tough love by hanging around the Modern Amps forum and trashing all their modern amps, but you just have to learn to ignore the trolling and take the interesting stuff.

In reality, I bought my Princeton Chorus about six months ago for $200 and it works great. Pots are a little scratchy but no other problems. If it breaks, I've still had a great experience. Maybe I am unwise with my money. I don't really care. Some people hoard tens of thousands of dollars worth of vintage sound-producing boxes, and they criticize us? Come on. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:32 am
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It's all good Wayne2 (thanks for your support), I take every piece of advice into consideration (that is PART of why some of us are here). What I don't do, is sit around worrying about a stranger on the world wide web. Got no time for pomposity in my real life, let alone virtual.

I have an Ultimate Chorus that I got for free, and spent $80.00 on parts, and a six pack of beer to have my Electrician buddy fix it. I had no trouble finding the parts. None.
I also have a Deluxe85 with red knobs (I found on Craigslist for $80.00...I offered $40.00 and walked away with it) with no issues (other than a couple scratchy pots---reason I got it for half price)...but if I run across an issue, I've no doubt I can find the parts AND someone to fix it for me.
Both are amps of the early 90's just like the Princeton Chorus.

The Princeton Chorus I am looking at is being sold by a reputable seller, and I will have a chance to play through it before I drop down a dime. Interesting enough, it looks like my Deluxe85 and Ultimate Chorus had a baby (both looks and features). LOL!

This thread was started by me asking for opinions/advice/input on how an Acoustic guitar would sound hooked to an amp designed for electric guitars...to see if I want to spend the money on an Acoustic pickup. The amp is already a 'given' (as long as there are no issues with it when I test it out), because I have electric guitars I can enjoy through it (and because it is cool, and I'd like it in my collection). I have gotten some great input so far, and I absolutely do appreciate it. Haters tend to blow right out my ears (or other orifice).

By browsing this site, I can see I am an 'oddity' around here. I prefer my MIM Strat's over my American...and I prefer Solid State amps over Tube. From what I've seen, that isn't gonna get me too many friends around here---but I ain't here to make friends (I have those in my real life). Of my 5 amps, 3 are Solid State, and I'm looking to add a 4th. Of the 2 Tube amps, 1 is for sell (and I can't wait to get rid of it).
Not sure why it (the hate) has to be that way, because I say "to each their own".

If it's any constellation to anyone; of the 7 guitars and 5 amps I have...all but two are Fender. And the two that aren't (85' Harmony & 88' Kay---my first electric and acoustic) were bought in the 80's when I was young, poor, and just wanted to play guitar.

Now; back to the topic. Anyone else have any luck getting a decent sound with an acoustic through an electric guitar amp? And anyone have experience with the Seymour Duncan Woody HC pickup?


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:31 pm
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I'm not too set in my ways. I go back and forth between my solid state Fenders and my Blackstar HT-5C. MIM and American Deluxe strats. I do like Fender's modern amp lineup. That's why I browse this forum sometimes.

If I ever develop more of an interest in vintage gear, boutique stuff, or kit building I'll probably head to another forum for that.


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Post subject: Re: Princeton Chorus...good for Acoustic?
Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:52 pm
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White Dog wrote:
Now; back to the topic. Anyone else have any luck getting a decent sound with an acoustic through an electric guitar amp? And anyone have experience with the Seymour Duncan Woody HC pickup?

Just one thought you might want to check out on that SD Woody. Since it is a passive pickup, it may need a phantom power source to boost output, especially thru an electric amp (I am not too keen on the electrical specs for this type of thing, but I think it has something to do with impedance-matching). My Martin/Fishman under-saddle pickup is a piezo unit and has a battery that runs a pre-amp which is part of the cable jack assembly inside the guitar.


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