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Post subject: Re: Matching Amps and Speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:58 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
While I have replaced a lot of speakers, most are old and buzzy or torn.


In the hypothetical situations I cite, I'm referring to amps that were only a year or two old at the time that their speaker(s) failed.

I've seen time and again with virtually every model within Fender's line-up......

A Twin Reverb with a pair of Oxford 12T6's -- those drivers are rated for 50-watts yet one of them failed under the onslaught of 85 watts.

A Bassman with a pair of Jensen C12NA's -- again, two 40-watt drivers connected to a 50-watt source and one of them ends up a crispy critter.

A Super Six Reverb equipped with a sextet of CTS alnico's -- each speaker rated for 30 watts yet one or more of them inexplicably fries.

These are all real-world examples that have occurred countless times.

The "race car" simile cannot be applied to the source/load scenario of a guitar amp and its speakers.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Matching Amps and Speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:39 am
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I'm gonna toss my own $.02 worth in here for the OP's benefit, just to muddy things up a bit more.
8)


As Arjay originally said, it's really part science, part art form. From the science point of view, as others have already suggested you have to pay attention to things like power rating and impedance. I would add to that however in that I also pay attention to SPL ratings as well...speaker efficiency. These days there's a misconception about speakers as it relates to power or how loud they actually are. In short, a more efficient speaker is going to be louder AT THE SAME WATTAGE than a less efficient speaker. This is why so many "kids" end up with car stereos that just sound like CRAP...they buy speakers like "Road Thunder" that may indeed handle 10,000,000 watts of power, but they're also very inefficient speakers, not usually worth the parts they're made from. Good brands on the other hand, such as JBL or EV are more efficient, produce more sound at the same wattage and typically sound better in a given situation (depending on taste and use).

Obviously, impedance can in fact play a large role. For example, while you NEVER want to use speakers with an impedance rating lower than your amps minimum rating, you can actually use speakers of a higher impedance rating to obtain different results. A speaker (or combination of speakers) rated at 16 ohms for example, when used on an amp rated with an 8 ohm minimum, will typically provide less distortion (and less power) than a speaker rated at 8 ohms. It can be argued that this is a nice way to clean up amps that break up to quickly.

Frequency/response is another consideration, albeit a rather obvious one. A speaker designed to reproduce low end frequencies, such as a bass or PA speaker, is going to sound quite different than say, a tweeter designed exclusively for high frequency reproduction. Those are extremes of course, but it illustrates the point.

Along with that, while this is a bit more subjective, I also feel that the physical size of the speaker often plays a roll as well. This is really just a personal observation, but I tend to prefer guitar amps with 12 inch speakers...10's typically sound a bit high pitched and "squeaky" to me, where 15's on a guitar amp usually come off sounding -really- muddy. Likewise, as Arjay has already pointed out, the cabinet configuration certainly plays a big roll as to how a given set of speakers sound. The difference between a closed and open back cabinet can be like night and day, depending on the specific circumstances.

Then of course, we have that almighty consideration of "brand". Vintage Celestions for example are renowned for their tendency to break up easily...a rather identifiable sound so many Marshall lovers adore (part of what many consider to be that "British" sound). EV's and JBL's are often known for the clean and pristine often favored by jazz players and those old vintage Jensen's often appeal to many of the blues players out there (btw...American made or not, personally I love the newer Jensens!). Certainly those old Peavey Scorpions & Black Widows have a following. In a very real sense, speakers can be as distinctive as guitars and amps.

Of course, no discussion of speakers would be complete without saying a word on "age". Speakers of course are subject to a great deal of wear and tear as they age. Even when you have brands, models, components and manufacturing processes that are absolutely identical, the difference between a brand new speaker and one that's seen hundreds of hours of use can be rather extraordinary. Which works best for a given amp is usually governed by the sound the user is trying to obtain...for example if you want something that sounds like a vintage twin, you'd likely want to use older speakers. If you want something that sounds brand new out of the box...you get the idea.

While I won't say that there's really any voodoo involved, once you move beyond the science and specs, a great deal of it is just a matter of experience and really just comes down to understanding the nature between speakers. Think of it like this; to a person who doesn't play guitar, there may not be much difference between a Strat and a Les Paul...after all, both are "guitars". For a more refined palate however, the differences are quite significant indeed. As with guitars however, there's always a degree of subjective discussion...as always, what sounds great to one person may sound terrible to the next. I've even known of people who've poked holes in the speaker cones with a screwdriver just to get a different sound! LOL!

So with that, I'd say that most of matching up speakers to a given amp usually depends on what kind of sound you're looking to achieve, then understanding the nuances of all the components involved. Personally I feel that it's a goal driven task...restoring a vintage piece of music history for example, would be quite different from trying to tailor a specific, unique "sound" for an individual player...the sound of a vintage Twin may be great for a blues player, but may be rather inappropriate for the budding metal-monger looking to jar someone's back teeth loose. Someone who's heavily into "surf" is likely to have very different needs than someone who cut their teeth on 80's punk and someone who plays jazz every night would likely have different needs still. From the guitar to the pedals/effects to the amp, speakers are simply part of the sound chain and choosing the "right" speaker is effectively similar to choosing the right guitar or the right distortion pedal...it all depends on what you're looking for.

Again, just my own personal opinions as always.


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Post subject: Re: Matching Amps and Speakers
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:20 pm
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You mean I can't put an Eminence Commonwealth (225W) speaker into my Blues Junior.
I was really thinking about it. I mean why not?

If not, I back to buying the Cannabis Rex (50W) for the Blues junior. I'm slow to make this speaker purchase in case I change my mind about it all and think I should of bought something else.


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Post subject: Re: Matching Amps and Speakers
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:59 am
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You can always put in a higher wattage speaker, no harm in that. Overkill on speaker wattage won't harm the amp....your wallet maybe, but not the amp. :idea:

Although, IMO, the Crex is a fantastic speaker for the BJr. I tried a few and the Crex was the best for me. Quite the wow-factor.

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Post subject: Re: Matching Amps and Speakers
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:56 pm
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I usually give myself a little leeway. In my 18 watt Marshall clone the speaker is rated at 25 watts, my 5e3 Clone it's a 30 or 35 watt speaker, can't remember off the top of my head. I like to give it a little bit of leeway for pedals. I have a friend who had a 200 watt EV speaker in a 65 watt Music Man. Real overkill if you ask me. I think the tone of a tube amp is a combination of tube and speaker breakup. Just my thoughts. YMMV.

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