It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:16 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:32 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Well, My dilemma is this. I have a 65DRRI and its my only amp and I practice/play in the living room (15x17).
I usually play more often at night. I don't gig or record. I don't want to disturb the neighbors.

Lately I've been contemplating buying a practice tube amp with either adjustable wattage or separate inputs 1W & 10W. I've looked at these under/around $400 and would consider them, some of the better offerings:
Laney Cub 12R
VOX has a few different models
VHT(thanks Johnny) Chinese hand wired, but they look really nice in my opinion.

My issue is this; none of these amps have the same tone/power relative to the DRRI.
So I started looking at attenuators. Again there are many out there.

I understand Weber makes very good attenuators and am looking mostly at 50W models, but would consider 100W if necessary. The DRRI is only 22watts and from what I've read most recommend 2x the amps wattage.

My basic questions are they plug and play or do they require some DIY work?
I'm assuming that in order to connect to the DRRI I would disconnect the internal speaker and connect it to the attenuators output and connect the attenuators input from the amps internal speaker connection via 1/4" jumper cable...Is it that simple?
I realize that I'll go through more tubes if I attenuate at max all the time.
Do they have sweet spots? Say amp on 70-80% and attenuated to neighbor level output.
Do they retain tone or is that just hype?
What other brands are out there ya'll would recommend or have experience with?

If I could afford both I would buy them both but, I am more interested in any attenuator opinions for the DRRI since I can really only afford one at this time.

Thanks for any info.


Last edited by sfceric64 on Fri May 29, 2015 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 10:08 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 19
Location: Denmark
I would go for the 50w attenuator. Weber have a very good reputation.
I have a Palmer PDI06 and next to guitar and amp, it's the most useful gear I spend money on.
Speaker attenuators are just plug and play. One speaker cable to amp and one to speaker.
Of course you have to select the right impedance on the attenuator :)

I was just browsing Webers website, and I see there are two types. A speaker motor type and a resistor based type. The 50w Load Dump appears to be a good choice for the DRRI. But don't take my word for it - other more knowledgeable people will most likely chime in :)

As for the effect on sound I think it is because our ears are tuned to hear mids better than any thing else.
So the mids sort of survives better in our perception than the highs and lows, when the volume is turned down.
That is the reason for the boost button found on home stereos at least. It is probably also the reason for the treble boost on Webers attenuators.
That said, you will of course loose the effect of how the speaker reacts at higher volumes.

As for the alternative amps you mentioned I think it is the VHT 12/20 that comes very close to the DR - at least when looking at the schematics. But you got the real deal, and an attenuator is cheaper.

Just my 2 cents. I'm sure someone with actual experience with Weber attenuators will chime in :)

_________________
Johnny


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 1:36 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
I have the 50 watts Weber Mass Attenuator , it work for any speaker/ amp impedance , not many attenuator do that .


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 7:00 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
I appreciate the replies.

Quote:
It is probably also the reason for the treble boost on Webers attenuators.
That said, you will of course loose the effect of how the speaker reacts at higher volumes.


I guess that makes sense, the speakers aren't being driven as hard as the tubes. I suppose I will have to see how the Jensen reacts, I kinda figured it wouldn't be a big difference from a lower volume on the amp w/o an attenuator. Do the amps Bass/Treble controls retain there full function when attenuated?

Quote:
As for the alternative amps you mentioned I think it is the VHT
yup, I think I was looking at a smaller model though.

Quote:
I have the 50 watts Weber Mass Attenuator , it work for any speaker/ amp impedance , not many attenuator do that .
If the one you have broke would you replace it with the same?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:01 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:31 am
Posts: 19
Location: Denmark
sfceric64 wrote:
Do the amps Bass/Treble controls retain there full function when attenuated?

Yes - there is no difference.

_________________
Johnny


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 2:06 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Again thanks for the replies,

Dropped the order today for the Weber mini mass 50watt.
For $125, maybe it was a no-brainer.
Not sure what that says about me!!! :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:42 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:50 pm
Posts: 7998
Location: ʎɹʇunoɔ ǝsoɹ pןıʍ
Personally, I would bypass the amp altogether. Find a good headphone preamp and practice with that. Attenuators don't really deliver 100%. They allow the amp to work hard but they don't allow the speaker to work hard and the speaker is part of the tone you love. The way I see it, if you're going to compromise on tone anyway then why spend all the money to strangle your amp when a headphone preamp is cheaper and immensely easier to handle?

:idea:

_________________
Image
Just think of how awesome a guitar player you could have been by now if you had only spent the last 10 years practicing instead of obsessing over pickups and roasted maple necks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:56 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
BMW-KTM wrote:
They allow the amp to work hard but they don't allow the speaker to work hard and the speaker is part of the tone you love.


A bit of a non sequitur since the 22-watt DRRI comes stock with a 100-watt speaker. Thus, it's never really "working" regardless of how hard the amp is pushed.

I do agree though that the headphone amp is a viable (perhaps even the preferable) option.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:07 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
I have practiced w/ headphones & preamp, personally I would rather practice acoustic guitar as I do most nights instead of using headphones. I feel constricted when using headphones even earbuds.
I'd rather have some tone loss @50% power on a 12" speaker not pushing air or achieving the alnico effects.
But w/o a lot of experience, I'll have to wait and see how I hear the attenuators tonal effects. Hopefully its not as poor as you suggest.

Have a great weekend


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 6:29 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Retroverbial wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
They allow the amp to work hard but they don't allow the speaker to work hard and the speaker is part of the tone you love.


A bit of a non sequitur since the 22-watt DRRI comes stock with a 100-watt speaker. Thus, it's never really "working" regardless of how hard the amp is pushed.

I do agree though that the headphone amp is a viable (perhaps even the preferable) option.

Arjay


I agree that the Jensen never comes close to its rating; I've considered a speaker change and at some point may swap it w/ a lower rated speaker. But in general I like the sound I'm getting out of the DRII w/ the Jensen for now.

We'll have to disagree about the headphones for now, maybe I'll have a change of heart after I try the attenuator. But I don't believe it will be as bad as headphones....


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:05 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:58 pm
Posts: 385
Location: Montana
I have a 50 watt weber mini mass and a 100 watt weber mass lite that I use in my studio and practice room. I usually do not crank them down too hard, just hard enough to knock some of the db's down to please the other half. I like them both and I use them for all of my tube amps. I have discovered that just by having them hooked to a hissy amp will knock almost all of the hiss out and make them more bearable in close quarters. Which is a much needed feature for my 68 Custom Twin Reverb..

Those Laney Cubs seem to be a pretty nice setup, but I prefer my Egnater Tweaker 15 head. It has 6V6's like my DRRI and my Fender Musicmaster amp, plus an effects loop. Also I can hook it up to the speakers in all of my other amps..

Another trick, I use a Hardwire CM2 and a volume pedal in front of the amp and can get those dialed in for some pretty beefy tones at low volume with and without the attenuators..

I agree on the headphones feeling a little restricted, but they do have their place... I have a Zoom G5 and a Zoom G3X that I use with headphones and I can get that huge fill the stadium sound at any hour of the day when I want it... 8)

_________________
In the hands of the right people it can change the world. Not bad for a hunk of ash, a few magnets, and some wire.
Band Site
http://www.reverbnation.com/bigskybluesband
Demos
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigskybluesband


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 8:14 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
majorbytes wrote:
I have a Zoom G5 and a Zoom G3X that I use with headphones and I can get that huge fill the stadium sound at any hour of the day when I want it... 8)


+1

I have a Zoom G1X on my pedal board for that very purpose.

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:42 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Retroverbial wrote:
BMW-KTM wrote:
They allow the amp to work hard but they don't allow the speaker to work hard and the speaker is part of the tone you love.


A bit of a non sequitur since the 22-watt DRRI comes stock with a 100-watt speaker. Thus, it's never really "working" regardless of how hard the amp is pushed.



Arjay



+1


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:43 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
sfceric64 wrote:
Again thanks for the replies,

Dropped the order today for the Weber mini mass 50watt.
For $125, maybe it was a no-brainer.
Not sure what that says about me!!! :lol:



+1


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Advice-Opinions
Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:48 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 1677
Location: Coastal Bend, Tx.
Whilst I wait, decided to get out the old headphones...So it was still constrictive feeling, but it sounded better than I remember it being. Maybe I am just a little better now at dialing in the Boss ME I use and for that reason(tinkering w/ the ME unit) even w/ the attenuator the headphone option is a good one for practicing. Thanks for the gentle prodding Arjay & BMW-KTM.

a new question about using the attenuator; say I have another 8ohm 1x12 cab I want to run. I will guess that the 2nd speaker output from the amp bypasses the Atten. out of that jack so I would need a Y out of the attenuator and adjust the ohm setting to 4ohms, is this correct?


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: