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Post subject: Power amps and tube amps
Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:20 pm
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When it comes to amps, I'm pretty green, so I was wondering that maybe you guys could help me out a bit. I'm looking for a bigger & better amp. Since now I've been playing with a Fender Frontman 212R 100 watt solid state, but now I'm looking for an amp that I could use on stage. I'm not sure what sound I'm going for yet, but I've put an eye on Marshall's JCM 800's and 900's. Now, before I buy anything I want to make sure I won't regret it later, so I'm asking you, dear members of the Fender community to answer my stupid question. What's are the differences between tube amps and power amps and what are the benefits of both and of course I'd like to hear your opinion on which you think is better. :)


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Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:24 pm
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When I think of the term power amp, I think of the device that goes after a non-powered mixer (as in a PA system for a group) which then amplifies the signal to be sent out to the speakers. I do not associate it with guitar amplification (except for when a line out is run from the guitar amp to the mixer.)

I'm guessing that you are really inquiring about tube versus solid state guitar amps. Do a search on past topics and you will see lots of comments and as many opinions. Emotions run high on this topic. I believe that clean is clean and it matters little if it comes from a tube or solid state amp. I also think that, at the opposite end of the spectrum i.e. extreme distortion, there is little noticeable difference. It's in the area of mildly to moderately overdriven where most people think that the tone of a tube amp is superior. BUT, though many will argue, I think the difference is in many people's head and I'd bet that a blind test would show that it's tough to tell a good tube amp versus a good solid state amp.

Your choice of music, your budget, and your preference for the technical aspects (durability, weight, inclusions of effects, etc.) will dictate the amp you want/need most often.

Gotta ask- What's wrong with your Frontman 212 100 watt? Maybe just a good pedal such as a tubescreamer would satisfy you. There is tremendous tone variability to be had from a tubescreamer. Surely your frontman is loud enough, especially if you mic or line out.

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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:00 am
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As I was browsing through one of the larger on-line music gear suppliers, I stumbled across power amplifiers designed specifically for guitar or basses. You learn something new every day!

I'm curious now as to if anybody out there has used this type of setup and if so, why.

Looks to me from reading the equipment specs. during the browse, that all are rack mounted, most do not have pre-amps, and most are designed to accommodate multiple speakers (as do the power amps for a PA system). They also appear to be for higher sound levels. The concept here is obviously modularity.

So, the real question in my mind is WHY: Volume? Is one of the reasons to transfer control to a sound engineer since it is rack mounted?

To quote Fender's representative when refering to their new 65 Princeton Reverb amp: ".....smaller tube amps are really popular. Baby Boomers are no longer interested in playing stacks at Mötley Crüe volume. They want a good-sounding amp that can be miked through a recording or PA system."

So, sorry to add confusion with my first post, but I have never known anyone (amateur or semi-professional friends and associates) nor have I seen any concerts where I noticed the performers using this type of setup. I'd like to hear about the real world applications.

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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:54 am
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Okay, Let's make this simple.

A tube amp has two sections. A pre-amp section and a power amp section. The pre-amp for the most part sets the tone well the power amp amplifys the tone from the pre amp to give you volume.

A separate tube power amp has no pre amp installed. You can use a Line6 or Digitech type of pre amp and use the tube power amp to give it volume while at the same time giving it the warmth of tube saturation.

MOst of your rockers on the big stage you some sort of tube power amp. The most popular being Mesa Boogie, VHT and Marshall. MOst are placed in a rack system for easy storage.

I hope that helps clear it up.


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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:27 pm
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I've seen a lot of those power amps leading straight into cabinets/speakers for basses in rental practice rooms, but never for guitar. I'd really like to get a chance to play one of those. Really freaks me out, because I want to buy an amp within, like, the next two weeks. Right now, it seems that I'm going for a jcm 900 100 watt. Also, I was auditioning for this band today and I saw a Marshall Power Breaker (?) connected to a vintage modern marshall tube amp. The drummer said that it should allow one to max up the preamp volume so that the tubes are maxed out and the amp sounds better and then the power breaker should just turn the volume down or cut down the watts used, while keeping the tone. Seems like a neat little thingy, when rehearsing or playing at home, since a 100 watt through a big cabinet is even too loud when maxed out for gigs in clubs and $@!&. Any idea, whether this power breaker thingy makes sense? I really need to get myself educated in these things, I don't want to regret a 3000$ investment.


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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:34 pm
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pfriik wrote:
I've seen a lot of those power amps leading straight into cabinets/speakers for basses in rental practice rooms, but never for guitar. I'd really like to get a chance to play one of those. Really freaks me out, because I want to buy an amp within, like, the next two weeks. Right now, it seems that I'm going for a jcm 900 100 watt. Also, I was auditioning for this band today and I saw a Marshall Power Breaker (?) connected to a vintage modern marshall tube amp. The drummer said that it should allow one to max up the preamp volume so that the tubes are maxed out and the amp sounds better and then the power breaker should just turn the volume down or cut down the watts used, while keeping the tone. Seems like a neat little thingy, when rehearsing or playing at home, since a 100 watt through a big cabinet is even too loud when maxed out for gigs in clubs and $@!&. Any idea, whether this power breaker thingy makes sense? I really need to get myself educated in these things, I don't want to regret a 3000$ investment.
That is a power squeezer should go from 100 watt to 50 watt and keep the same sound. Roland cube amps have what they call a power squeezer they are not tube amps but ther amps like the 30X reduce output down to 2 watts while while reproducing the distortion of a cranked power amp no matter what the volume level is. I think that Marshall does the same thing but down to 50 watts which in a tube amp is still a lot of volume.

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Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:00 pm
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You are refering to an attenuator. It goes between the amp and the speaker and allows you to crank the power up on the amp and turn the volume down to the speakers (excess energy turned into heat). Your amp thinks it's playing very loud, hence the overdriven tone.

Here are a couple with user reviews included:
1) http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=483191
2) http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=481283

I was told by an amp repairman that if used improperly, they can cause damage to the amp. He then pointed to two amps waiting for repairs as a result of misuse of attenuators. I assumed he meant that you shouldn't just max out the volumes and then decrease the volume via the attenuator.

I've been considering getting one myself, but haven't as yet.

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Gibson Guitars


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