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Post subject: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and bass?
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 5:39 pm
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I have a new 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, sounds killer for guitar. I have a ton of guitars and no basses, thinking about adding a bass to the collection. The question, if I play a bass through the Bassman Reissue, will it affect it's sound with guitar? If so, I'll need to get another amp for bass....

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:28 pm
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No, using the bass is not going to somehow change the amp, if that's what you are asking.

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:41 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
No, using the bass is not going to somehow change the amp, if that's what you are asking.


Perhaps not. But it's a very convenient way to blow a few speakers.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:07 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
No, using the bass is not going to somehow change the amp, if that's what you are asking.


Perhaps not. But it's a very convenient way to blow a few speakers.

:lol:

Arjay

Well, these were originally designed for bass (the originals, not the reissues). Are the current models (reissues) not suitable for base?

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:32 am
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The originals were *intended* for bass but there was absolutely no difference in design philosophy between the Bassman enclosure and that of the 5E5 Pro Amp or the 5E7 Bandmaster......all of them featured an open-back cabinet that provided little if any acoustic loading. Not so important for a guitar speaker's survival but crucial for a bass driver. And when Leo re-designed the Bassman Amp at the dawn of the brownface era, the new speaker cabinet was a sealed-back bass-reflex design. Apparently he grew weary of replacing 10-inch speakers under warranty service due to excessive cone excursion.

But hey, I'm a newbie at all of this Fender stuff.

I might be wrong......

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:44 am
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A 59 Bassman is underpowered for most bass applications these days.
I think the speakers will handle the bass OK, There's just not enough power to blow them.
The biggest problem I've found with the reissues is the blue alnico speakers. The weight of the magnets is too much for the thin steel in the basket. If you carelessly drop your amp from just 6", it can bend the basket and cause the voice coil to rub and buzz due to misalignment.

I don't know if this was a problem for the originals.

The good news is that if you do have a problem with rubbing voice coils, you can possibly fix them if they haven't been rubbing for too long.
Pull the driver and put it on a flat surface. Place a straight edge on the magnet and establish the direction of the bend by rotating the straight edge and notice the low spot. That part has to come up. Usually, bottom of the basket is where it bends.

Connect a signal to the speaker, preferable a constant tone. Place on a flat surface. Use a pair of pliers, preferably channel lock to tweak the basket ribs near the magnet.
Just go lightly at first, rock the pliers back and forth to lightly tweak the metal. You will find the ribs that make a difference in the tone for the better. Now bend them a little harder to realign the ribs.
You have to go a little past the point of best tone for the metal to relax back to the optimum alignment.

I've done this repair to several blue alnicos succesfully. If they have been rubbing a long time, the windings come loose and they keep buzzing.

It's best not to drop it in the first place


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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:47 pm
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TimsAudio wrote:
I think the speakers will handle the bass OK, There's just not enough power to blow them.


Do much reading?

I would urge you to read the complete genealogy of Fender's tweed Bassman amp in Tom Wheeler's book and why the original 1 x 15 configuration was abandoned in favor of the 4 x 10 layout, and how ultimately that design too was deemed (by Leo himself) to be less-than-optimum.

Quite simply, the 5E6 and 5F6 played hell with speakers when the amp was used as it was intended. FEIC ate hundreds of speakers, repairing or replacing them under warranty claims. It's also one of the reasons that the re-designed 1957 Precision Bass featured the then-revolutionary split-coil pickup.

I don't have a dog in this fight -- beat those Eminence "special design" pie tins like a rented mule for all I care. But the facts are indisputable.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:16 pm
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Thanks much! While I'm not a newbie to "this Fender stuff" (not even close!), I AM very new to anything bass related. Obviously, though the originals were intended for bass, the instrument (which had just been invented) was so new that Leo and Co. didn't know yet what they needed to in the realm of speaker/cabinet design for longevity.

So a dedicated bass amp it will be. Only really asking as I'd like to add a PA, a drum kit and bass setup here at the house so I can have others over to jam without the hassle of bringing their own rig (unless they prefer it). I'll probably go with something simple and relatively inexpensive to start, as my focus will always be on the 6 string guitar. Surprised myself when I looked up what an Ampeg SVT sells for these days!

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:27 pm
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I can appreciate that. I took a similar tack when putting a rudimentary bass rig together for my music room. I installed a pair of Eminence 12-inch bass drivers into a '74 Bandmaster cab, powering it with a 1980 Bassman 135 head. The new speakers actually sound better than the cab's OEM Oxfords, both for bass and guitar. And they're rated for 100W per so there's little danger of overpowering them.

If you've got a spare amp, just pick up or build a basic bass enclosure and wire them together (observe all impedance, loading, and power-handling requirements for the amp of course).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:13 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
I can appreciate that. I took a similar tack when putting a rudimentary bass rig together for my music room. I installed a pair of Eminence 12-inch bass drivers into a '74 Bandmaster cab, powering it with a 1980 Bassman 135 head. The new speakers actually sound better than the cab's OEM Oxfords, both for bass and guitar. And they're rated for 100W per so there's little danger of overpowering them.

If you've got a spare amp, just pick up or build a basic bass enclosure and wire them together (observe all impedance, loading, and power-handling requirements for the amp of course).

Arjay

Spare amp? That'd be one of the 8 or 10 not in use when I use the Bassman I guess :mrgreen: . But many of those (half?) are tiny practice amps. Don't think the DRRI or the Blues Deluxe would really be suited for bass. And just as well to pick up something used, that was made for bass (and a proper cabinet). Certainly I can find something for around the price range of the bass itself (planning to spend maybe $600-$800 for the bass). I collect a bit. Won't kill me to add yet another amp and cab (or combo) to the mix...

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:29 am
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T Bone D wrote:
Won't kill me to add yet another amp and cab (or combo) to the mix...


That's what I keep telling myself......

Image

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:59 am
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Arjay, You need another amp.
I don't see a 59 Bassman in your Fender Armada.
You're missing out on one of Leo's classic tone tricks.
The input stage is set up similar to a phase inverter.
If you plug into one channel, you can get sound out of the other channel that is 180 out-of-phase.
By turning up both volumes to get a balance between the two channels, you hit a sweet spot where the sound gets fat, then thin, then fat again.
It was the closest you could get to a phase shifter back then.

I know you don't think much of the speakers in the Bassman, so you can do the same thing with the old tweed Supers, Pro and some of the Tremolux. They nee to have their V1 cathode cap upped from 25uf to 250uf to get the same effect,
If it has the four inputs and twin volume controls clustered together, those models will all do the trick with just the one mod.

To balance out your color scheme, you will also need a 5E3 Tweed Deluxe. It has a cleaner tone because it is pre tone stack. It's versatile, from clean clean to dirt dog distortion and a great harp amp too.

Like you need an excuse....


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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:16 am
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I owned a 5F6-A back in the day. Bought from a down-on-his-luck keyboard player. It was covered in day-glo paint (lime green and orange). Cabinet, grill cloth, handle, knobs, control panel, everything. Psychedelic camouflage. Had one blown speaker and I think I paid forty bucks for it. The tone was not that impressive to me and I traded it in for a '64 blackface Concert Amp after less than a year. So I've already been there, done that. The tweed tone is just not for me.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:12 am
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Interesting thread. I bought a '59 LTD last year and the guitarist in my combo uses it at our rehearsals. I haven't tried my bass through it (currently using a lightly modified CIJ '51 P) but I think it might work at our volumes. We (bass, guitar, percussion) back up a trio of singers, so the vocals are the focus, not slammin' bass or screaming guitar or even driving drums.

I had read that the single-coil Ps were tearing up the early 15" speakers. No doubt the unexpected rise of teenagers playing loud music caught Leo by surprise. As I understand it, he attacked the problem on two fronts: increased cone area (4X10 vs 1X15) and the redesign of the single-coil into the split coil with its much slower attack and longer sustain.

Thinking about it, I don't believe my guitarist will be willing to give up the '59 long enough for me to try it out.


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Post subject: Re: 59 Bassman LTD Reissue, switch off between guitar and ba
Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:54 am
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lpdeluxe1 wrote:
I had read that the single-coil Ps were tearing up the early 15" speakers. No doubt the unexpected rise of teenagers playing loud music caught Leo by surprise. As I understand it, he attacked the problem on two fronts: increased cone area (4X10 vs 1X15) and the redesign of the single-coil into the split coil with its much slower attack and longer sustain.


Correct.

Which is why I never endorse using the 5F6 Bassman for any instrument other than a guitar or harp.

It's not my speakers I'm trying to save.

Arjay

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