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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:19 am
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strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
I'm guessing you never had an a-hole drummer smack into one of your tubes and shatter it then (for example). That's more the kind of mishap I'm referring to.
Your kidding right? No I didn't. I've played everything from festivals, auditoriums, large clubs and neighborhood dives for over 40 years and never had a tube shattered by anyone. Maybe you should stop playing with a$$holes drummers. :lol:

Boy this is funny timing! Check this thread out regarding such a mishap I had on Monday this week :arrow: Link


Wow! My cat knocked my cell phone off the chair. Still works! If it had tubes in it, it would have been a different story too. I wonder how the military used such fragile tube driven devices in their equipment?

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:51 am
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63supro wrote:
I wonder how the military used such fragile tube driven devices in their equipment?


Yeah.

Like B-52's.

And submarines.

And armored vehicles.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:20 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
I wonder how the military used such fragile tube driven devices in their equipment?


Yeah.

Like B-52's.

And submarines.

And armored vehicles.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Arjay

Really? Because they are armored, unlike your Fender amp. :roll:

And your phone? Well as I said.....
strings10927 wrote:
Any time glass is part of the construction, you can count on a few issues in the worst case scenario.

Image

Yes, I understand tubes are "more durable than some people may think". A lot of that has to do with the shape. But glass is glass, it breaks. I'm sorry if that logic doesn't fit into your "old school is always better" mentality.

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:28 am
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strings10927 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
I wonder how the military used such fragile tube driven devices in their equipment?


Yeah.

Like B-52's.

And submarines.

And armored vehicles.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Arjay

Really? Because they are armored, unlike your Fender amp. :roll:

And your phone? Well as I said.....
strings10927 wrote:
Any time glass is part of the construction, you can count on a few issues in the worst case scenario.

Image

Yes, I understand tubes are "more durable than some people may think". A lot of that has to do with the shape. But glass is glass, it breaks. I'm sorry if that logic doesn't fit into your "old school is always better" mentality.


Sorry my old school tube logic doesn't fit your computer generated, artificial, digitally sterilized, souless tone mentality too. Yeah, we all understand you love your Mustang and your need to remind us how antiquated tube technology is. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:44 am
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Not to fear, Robert. The Mustang's technology will be obsolete in four or five years, to be replaced by yet another trendy piece of crap that will be crooned about and fawned over by the hoi polloi as their sonic savior.

Meanwhile, we'll still be flogging our antiquated 6L6's and 6V6's.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:30 am
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63supro wrote:
your computer generated, artificial, digitally sterilized, souless tone mentality

I guess it's safe to assume you never listen to CD's, MP3's, WMA's, etc? :| Records sounded great, but they weren't practical. It's hard to keep the record from skipping while jogging, ya know?

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:41 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
63supro wrote:
your computer generated, artificial, digitally sterilized, souless tone mentality

I guess it's safe to assume you never listen to CD's, MP3's, WMA's, etc? :| Records sounded great, but they weren't practical. It's hard to keep the record from skipping while jogging, ya know?

Image


I still have a vinyl collection a turntable and a stereo system. I also have CD's but only listen to them in the car. I don't listen to MP3's or WMA's because I think they sound like garbage. The CD's sound too sterile to me, but hey it's something to listen to in the car. I actually had a reel to reel up until a year ago until it got too difficult to get parts for it. I will get another one. I don't listen to music on my computer and my phone isn't an appendage and I don't walk around with headphones or earbuds shoved in my ears. I rarely even text. My reverb unit is tube driven and I just built it myself. It doesn't have a reverse gate or a million Hall effects, but it sounds lifelike and authentic. I only use slight reverb and only in dead rooms otherwise the natural acoustics of the room work just fine for me. Even a couple of my distortion boxes are tube driven. Next up is possibly a Fulltone tape echo unit. I used tape echos in the 70's and loved them hiss and all. So enjoy your little techno wonder box if that's what floats yer boat, but don't dog the guys who like to be techno grouches. It's usually you guys who start all this nonsense anyway. To each their own. Live and let live and all that horstshit. Live long and prosper.

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:48 pm
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63supro wrote:
...I wonder how the military used such fragile tube driven devices in their equipment?


Mil-spec?

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:51 pm
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Getting back on topic, I think it's sad Fender have been so reckless with their reputation of late. Seems like they want to skip the QA/QC process and let consumers find bugs for them. Trouble is, even if they could justify that approach and use it to actually solve issues they seem to refuse to let a product live long enough to benefit from it before they go and cheapen it further and introduce a new set of bugs. I'm with Supro. The guitars seem to be OK (for the time being) but I won't be buying any new Fender amps until they take their heads out of their backsides and start building some quality into their amps again.

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:24 pm
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Before we declare that the sky is falling, we should keep things in perspective. What is the true percentage of amp problems for any given model, and do we really have an accurate representation of the total from forums and reviews? Out of probably thousands of a particular model of amp sold, we get to hear about maybe a couple of dozen on this forum, perhaps a hundred or so all over the internet. I am sure that there are literally thousands of satisfied owners that don't post about their amps. Not to mention a bit of romanticizing about the "good old days". :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 5:44 pm
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Percentages, whatever. It's pretty tough to ignore the fact Fender have embraced the role of purveyors of entry level gear. Where they once had a solid rep for building quality pro grade working musician's gear that was no-frills but solid, they now go miles out of their way looking for ways to cut corners and keep pricing competitive with the entry level. The range used to be 80% quality gear and 20% entry level. At least that's how it was around here. Those numbers are now reversed and even the better stuff isn't all that wonderful anymore.

I realise they're in business to make money and mass production and cheap pricing is beneficial to that end but why do they have to use those practices across the entire range? Surely they must realise that seasoned pros aren't coming to them in the same numbers as they used to.

They need to step up their game and anything with Blackface or Silverface names, re-issues or implied lineages needs to be better. Much better.

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:22 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
They need to step up their game and anything with Blackface or Silverface names, re-issues or implied lineages needs to be better. Much better.


+1

PREACH IT, BRUTHA!

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:46 am
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Let's not forget that even the "student model" amps were built for the long haul. My 74 Champ still sees weekly use. It's still all original except for the RCA 6v6 power tube that was replaced. That tube was in there when I bought it in the 80's. It got another NOS 6v6 that I got at a yard sale. I replaced the speaker with a Weber Sig 8 too, not because the original failed, but because I like Weber speakers. It's way overdue for a cap job.

I think what's happening is the younger crowed is just used to disposable, poorly made products and just rolls with it. Us Geezers remember the days of appliances and most products lasting decades and are pissed because they no longer do. The sky isn't falling for Fender, it already fell for the Geezers. We didn't spend time on the forums defending our purchases, we enjoyed them. When you calculate inflation, two grand or more for a hand wired amp is where it should be. My 1966 Vibrolux Reverb was $350 in 1966. That was a ton of coin back then. If our wages kept up with inflation, it wouldn't be so bad to buy a quality amp. But now, QC is in the dumper. We are the Beta testers. Even my camera gear is the same way. I pay three grand for a camera body for my business, but wait a while until the latest firmware update comes out to avoid issues. I would recommend that for new Fender amps too. Let the newbs who need the newest toy but have no patience to wait do the testing for you. They find status in the newest iThing, camera, guitar gear or gaming system that comes out. Have fun with the new nightmare. It took Fender well over ten years of customer bitching to "improve" the HRD series how long you think for the 69 Custom's? Build your own!!!

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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:03 am
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How do you describe the quality of the Mona Lisa to someone who's never seen it? How do you describe quality tone to someone who's never heard it? I've found that it takes a trained musician's ear to discern the differences between solid state and tube tone.
As I've said before, all amps make sound, but only a few make music.

Just as increasing the digital resolution from 8 bit to 16 bit to 24 bit increases musical quality, increasing the slew rate of an analog circuit improves fidelity and quality of tone.
Early op amps were limited to 1 volt per microsecond. The common 4558 chips will go to 5V/usec. A TL072 will push 16V/usec. My upgrades to TLE2072 will push it to 32V/usec.
These make a noticeable improvement in articulation and detail.
But to put this in perspective, the 12AX7 slew rate is 1000V/usec. You can fit a lot more musical detail into the same space with tubes than transistors.
That's not to say solid state can't be made to sound better. There are op amps that will do 1000V/usec too. But the factories won't pay the cost of good music. It's all about, "good enuf to sell".

So let these kids play around with their toys. Sooner or later, they will hear good tone and start their journey back to tubes. Then they'll understand why tubes amps are still alive and kickin'


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Post subject: Re: Help with troubleshooting a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:30 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
So let these kids play around with their toys. Sooner or later, they will hear good tone and start their journey back to tubes. Then they'll understand why tubes amps are still alive and kickin'


+1000

And that's the name of that tune!

Arjay

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