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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:33 am
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I am sorry for you UseYourThumb, that is one piss-poor "tech", and he should be severely slapped about the head and face for treating you that way. :x

I am a CET (by the ETA), but I'm not a lazy SOB. I, and many others on this forum, know a bit about amp repair, so that so-called "tech" can.....well, you know, fluff-off.

I hope that you can find someone that can help you out, and if not, maybe we can talk you through the process of pulling the main board yourself if you feel up to it. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:37 am
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As a tech myself, I have often been in a situation where I can't replicate a symptom.
However, I always trust that the customer isn't just making it up so he can waste time and money bringing it in for service. The failure to detect it is mine and I don't lay it on the musician to prove it.

You can usually tell if the main board has been pulled by examining the zip ties that hold the wires together. If they are missing or don't match the ones to the left, the board has been pulled and inspected. If they all match, no one has looked under the board.

The symptom you describe is probably cause by overheating of a component. Almost any other intermittent will come and go, but not require a cool down. Since you replaced the tubes, we'll rule that out
The commonest culprit are the two 5 watt resistors on the main board. They are they are white, rectangular, and about an inch long. They are mounted in the center of the board and supply power to the low voltage circuitry.
They can cause the channel to change, loss of reverb and loss of signal if you are using the Pre/Main jacks.

While pulling the board is the best way to inspect the soldering, you can eyeball these connections with a dental mirror and a flashlight.
If they look cracked, you can reheat the leads from the topside and add solder to wick down to repair the joint temporarily.
If that exercise makes a difference, then pulling the board for a full inspection can wait for a later date.
If it doesn't fix, resoldering the entire main board is the next step... for a different technician.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:21 am
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I thought I should keep this thread updated incase somebody else has a similar problem and needs help down the road.
I took the amp to another certified technician and he claimed he could not reproduce the issue. Regardless, he was nice enough to take off the circuit boards and rework every single solder joint. It was clear there were some cold joints and some joints that were stressed because sometimes they would made a clicking sound as they fell into place again. So I picked up the amp yesterday and got home and within ten minutes of playing I witnessed the problem twice. I played a bit more with it so I could get recordings of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auJ6Yc6vL6g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUhMIbMq4Tk
Check the descriptions for more detail on when and what was happening.
Anyway, the amp is back with the technician and I was able to reproduce the problem right in front of him. He plugged a volt meter into the preamp out and was able to diagnose that the issue happens before the speaker and power tubes. It was also noted that when the amp was working, the volt meter would display 69 volts. When the sound cut out, it read 65. Whatever is broken inside is sucking up 4 watts.
I'm no electrician so I'm just relaying what he told me here (hopefully I'm repeating it correctly). I'll keep making posts as I progress in this.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:05 am
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Your videos point to an issue with the input jack. Either soldering or bad jack or both. Have the tech check the area of the circuit board where the jack is soldered. Look for damage to the board and any components in this area. And all grounding points.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:09 pm
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Might be worth trying a new input jack, even if just to eliminate it as the cause, I had one of these fail internally, I'm not sure if they have changed recently but this one here (linked) seems to jog my memory. Personally I would ask your Tech to look at replacing it with a quality Switchcraft if possible, those original Plastic ones are a joke and will sooner or later intermittently fail/work at the most inconvenient of times.

Original:
https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/S-H506


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:28 am
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I know the place where he took his amp and if it was Frank that checked out your amp he is a top notch tech.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:15 am
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tbazzone wrote:
I know the place where he took his amp and if it was Frank that checked out your amp he is a top notch tech.

It was Frank and I've heard from many people that he is great. He was a nice guy and sounded like he knew what he was doing when I spoke to him. Unfortunately for both of us, the problem was intermittent and it was bad luck that the amp wouldn't fail for him.
I completely understand that he has a business to run and that Fender only allows him to do a certain amount of work on an amp that does not appear to be broken. Nothing against the guy, it was just a frustrating situation.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:25 pm
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When you unplug, replug and get your sound back, it will make a pop. That can clear up an intermittent connection for a while.
Since it has been resoldered, that eliminates most, but not all possibilities for intermittent connections.
The one thing that comes to mind is the External Speaker jack. I know this idea is on the other end of the horse, but there is switching circuitry that changes the OT impedance when you plug into the Ext jack. The normal speaker jack is fed from that switch.
The EXT jack switch can go intermittent and cause the problem you describe. Its a common problem. Especially at low volumes.
To check for a dirty Ext switch, just plug the speaker into the Ext jack and see if the problem goes away.
Yes, its a mismatch, so don't go crazy with the volume, but for test purposes, its OK for a while
Cleaning and exercising the EXT jack is easy. A little solvent on the contacts and cycle the speaker plug into the jack 5 times.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:13 am
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I have an original 1994 on my bench right now
Input jacks 1& 2 were so loose in the board that they would rock back and forth
problem solved ? it played perfect all day , turned it back on and the gain channel light stays on and no signal.
after some testing I find that the nine pin stereo jack at the power amp in spot is corroded or.........
Cleaned it well and the amp is fine for a while and then red light , no signal :roll:
Replaced the jack and were up and running, for a while :roll:

Then i find that when it shuts down a sharp blow to the top makes it all better for a while :roll:

Moral to the story ? yep gotta bad solder joint or trace somewhere intermittently freaking out and hopefully its just the channel switching button, some others on other forums have had that same issue and the micro push switch joints had failed.

Man I hate fenders thin cheap PCBs !!!

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:09 am
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Channel switching anomalies are generally related to failures in the 16 volt power supplies or r59 in the footswitch circuitry.
I replace the two 470 ohm 5watt resistors with 4 1000 ohm 5 watt.
Double them up in parallel to make a 500 ohm 10 watt configuration in the same footprint. Use silicone for vibration control.
This radiates more heat out of the components, keeping the board connections cooler.


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:18 pm
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Yep 470 ohm sandboxes for sure were the culprit
well within spec by the way one at 465 and the other at 480 ohms
however one leg of one of them had an almost unseeable cracked solder joint

here are the new ones, why waste the time soldering up the old guys ? and i had them in stock from the last HR Deluxe mess 8)

Image

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:49 pm
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I bet he never removed the board. I bet it's heat related and a bad solder joint. The board gets hot, a joint expands cuts out by losing contact, then when it cools off contracts and goes back together to make a connection. Mine did that at one point. My tech hated my HRdlx. It was on his bench more than it was on a stage. All different problems too.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 5:23 pm
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Cant really make an eyelet board for these and keep the circuit intact right ?
hard to mount all those multi legged bugs on an eyelet or turret board.

I guess you could keep the OT and the PT and just start over :roll:

Mine sounds tweedy good right now and the perfect amount of reverb so...............
My very good friend is jonesing for it bad ! likes the weight, tone and reverb compared to lugging his 59 bassman LTD and pedals.

I could live with this amp as is with my three pedals, it does sound Great !

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:40 am
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blues bondsman wrote:
Cant really make an eyelet board for these and keep the circuit intact right ?
hard to mount all those multi legged bugs on an eyelet or turret board.

I guess you could keep the OT and the PT and just start over :roll:

Mine sounds tweedy good right now and the perfect amount of reverb so...............
My very good friend is jonesing for it bad ! likes the weight, tone and reverb compared to lugging his 59 bassman LTD and pedals.

I could live with this amp as is with my three pedals, it does sound Great !


Nah, but TJ over at TFF used to do this to them.
http://www.tjadamowicz.com/amps/HRDConv/convert.html
His amp conversions are works of art.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe Reissue cuts out
Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:20 pm
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Hi guys. Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts. It is not a jack issue (refer to descriptions in videos and previous posts). Weak inputs were common on the 90's Blues Deluxe models but have been fine mostly on the newer ones. I believe this to be a 2012 model.
It also has nothing to do with channel switching as the problem (and voltage irregularity) exists on both clean and dirty channels.
The tech reworked all of the solder joints on all three boards so I am sure the solder crack possibility has been eliminated. I specifically alerted him to the 5-watt resistors but have not heard anything yet. I'll keep posting for future readers.

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