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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:35 am
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A suggestion. Before going donkey-bonkers and rearranging the household :) ... pull the tremolo/vibrato tube (V5, in the 68 CDR). I know that the '68 Custom amps have the tremolo EFX on both inputs --- but if the ticking stops (no guitar plug in), you may have found the culprit.

Then, you may want to try another 12AX7. I'd get a good low noise one, like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. Or a nice 5751. You may need to rearrange the lines going to V5, to reduce line interactions.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:34 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
A suggestion. Before going donkey-bonkers and rearranging the household :) ... pull the tremolo/vibrato tube (V5, in the 68 CDR). I know that the '68 Custom amps have the tremolo EFX on both inputs --- but if the ticking stops (no guitar plug in), you may have found the culprit.

Then, you may want to try another 12AX7. I'd get a good low noise one, like the Sovtek 12AX7LPS. Or a nice 5751. You may need to rearrange the lines going to V5, to reduce line interactions.

Good luck! Keep us posted.


Thanks for the tips!

I did pull the trem tube, tick persists.
I've literally tried over 10 different pre tubes, 5751, 12at7, 12ax7, NOS, new and tick persists.
Tried Sovtek LPS, Jan, JJ's, EH, Mullard, Sovtek 7025, Wurlitzer, etc...all with varying degrees of hiss and hum. At least I'm finding the bad ones. :)
A good number of the NOS are kinda noisy and microphonic, but then they are used old tubes that someone gave me a bunch of just to try out what they do.
Even a new JJ's 5751 is very microphonic, and some of the new OEM GT tubes.
I don't think the ticking is from the tubes at this point.

I'm picking up a Furman PL-8C power conditioner in hopes of quieting down some of the hum inherent in these amps, and maybe it will help with the ticking, maybe.

Even with nothing plugged into the amp the tick is there.
One of my coworkers suggested checking the outlet voltage to see if the voltage spikes up and down according to the tick.
Simple enough I guess just to see if there is something.

Is it possible that the transformers on 2 separate amps can be the flaw?
I haven't looked closely to see if Fender is using the same transformers, but then I haven't read of others with these amps reporting this problem.

I'll post what I find.
The hunt continues.....


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:49 pm
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" Is it possible that the transformers on 2 separate amps can be the flaw? "

And show the exact same "ticking" symptoms? Highly unlikely. You have something riding on top of your AC power. Or some EMF being transmitted in the air. Isolation tranny or similar device should eliminate it. I said should, because sometimes you need to go to heavy duty isolation trannies to fully eliminate the source. I have TOPAZ ISO's running on all of my computers and TV's --- to keep their noise out of the lines. Overkill, I know... :lol:

JOC... did you have any work done on your house's wiring? And are the outlets you are using on those new wires? Or is the house old with only two prong outlets? Sometimes, when the hot and neutral are reversed from what is wired in the amp --- the amp can makes noises. Though, I haven't heard of ticking noises from this polarity issue. But, just a thought.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:58 pm
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Reading the entire thread, not just the first post, reveals that you have already stated that the ticking noise was not affected by the "vibrato" controls. Further, you have already tried several tubes for the "vibrato" circuit and the ticking was still there. This is a clear indication that it is highly unlikely that the "vibrato" circuit is causing the ticking noise. Since the ticking noise went away, and seems to only occur in the evening, it really sounds like something outside the amp causing the noise.

As suggested, try the amp in a different house and turn off your cell phone, being sure that there are no other cell phones around the amp or guitar, and see if the noise persists. Try it before the evening when you noticed the ticking noise start.

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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:27 pm
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Pull the trem tube (V5) and see if it goes away. If not, look to your house wiring, appliances(Don't forget your refrigerator, especially since it cycles on/off several times a day), electronics, etc. I actually had a fluorescent floor lamp that would cause my 5F1 to squeal like a banshee if I didn't unplug the lamp every time I used the amp. Didn't matter that the lamp was turned off-it had to be unplugged or no go....


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:05 am
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Curiouser and Curiouser.
I did some searching and fiddling and have found the problem, or mostly I have. :)
It's the reverb unit, the RCA cables, or bad ground somewhere.

The CDR has stopped ticking altogether. I had fiddled with it's reverb unit and when I put it back in the ticking stopped.
So I tried the same with the CVR. I took the verb springs and put the whole thing on top of the amp.
The ticking is nearly gone. The verb level has to be at 9-10 to hear it.
I put it back into the amp and it's back to the same level.

If I take the spring unit out of the bag and place it on top of the amp again the ticking is nearly gone.
If I touch the metal cage the ticking and it's level comes back.
But if I touch the metal strips on top of the amp, the ones holding the amps parts, and touch the verb units metal cage the ticking goes away completely!
And there is virtually no hum at all even if the verb level is set to 10.

Grounding problem?
I'm going to get a better set of RCA cables in hopes of that fixing the problem.
If that doesn't work, then what should I look for to fix this properly?

Now I'm also thinking that the hum coming from the CDR when I turn the verb level up is also related to the same grounding problem as the CVR.
I must fix this and am hoping both of these amps will be much quieter too. :)

Almost there. :)


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:10 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
" Is it possible that the transformers on 2 separate amps can be the flaw? "

And show the exact same "ticking" symptoms? Highly unlikely. You have something riding on top of your AC power. Or some EMF being transmitted in the air. Isolation tranny or similar device should eliminate it. I said should, because sometimes you need to go to heavy duty isolation trannies to fully eliminate the source. I have TOPAZ ISO's running on all of my computers and TV's --- to keep their noise out of the lines. Overkill, I know... :lol:

JOC... did you have any work done on your house's wiring? And are the outlets you are using on those new wires? Or is the house old with only two prong outlets? Sometimes, when the hot and neutral are reversed from what is wired in the amp --- the amp can makes noises. Though, I haven't heard of ticking noises from this polarity issue. But, just a thought.


I figured it would be really odd if it were the transformers.
I brought that up because I can feel and hear the amp hum when turned on fully and idling.
There is vibration felt through the cab, and if I put my ear on the cab I can hear and feel the hum, they are connected.
Should there be this vibration?
That's why I was thinking that maybe the transformer/s are going bad or are not working as they should.
I would think that that kind of vibration is going to cause something fail sooner rather than later.
Maybe I should have a Fender tech take a look?

The vibration/hum and transformer thing may not be related to the ticking noise, but I really wouldn't know.
Hoping some of you guys might.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:17 pm
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Ok. It's official, it's the reverb unit itself.
I swapped the CVR's unit with the CDR's and the ticking is gone.
Plugged the CVR's verb back in and ticking came back.

Now I contact Fender and ask if they'll send me a new one, or I take it to Guitar Center and have them send it to a Fender tech. I have the standard Fender 5yr warranty, which should take care of this, and I also have the 3yr GC warranty that covers everything including shipping and accidental damage.

I'm also keeping an ear on the CDR's reverb because it too started ticking at the same time as the CVR did.
The CDR's ticking stopped the other day, but if it comes back then I'll know what the problem is.
I didn't check the model numbers of the verb units but physically they look the same.

Some minor details:
The bag the verb unit sits in is different between the two.
Also, on the CDR the bag is screwed down with 2 wood screws, one on each side along with 2 velcro wraps to hold it in place.
The CVR's verb bag does not have any wood screws, it's held in by the same type of velcro wraps.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:01 am
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Well guess what?
After figuring out the ticking problem is with the reverb unit on the CVR today I was playing and started using my distortion pedals again.
I was playing with the CDR until I can get the CVR fixed.
The ticking was there on the CDR when I use my distortion and/or gain pedals.

How are these amps wired so that higher gain on the input causes any reverb related problem to become worse?
Is there more to this problem than just a reverb tank swap?

Looks like I need to take both amps to a tech and have both of them fixed.
Until then I'm taking out a reverb unit I have in my Tubeworks combo just to try it out in the Fender amps to hear if it too ticks. If it does, then I'm going to assume the problem is in the amps reverb circuit.

More swapping and testing tomorrow.
This is really ticking me off...pun intended. :) :x :x


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:04 pm
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It's still odd that both amps started acting up at once.

This is a stretch, but you said you're in a rural area. Do you have a neighbor with horses or livestock? A long time ago I lived on a horse farm, and we used an electric fence. That caused a large amount of electrical noise on radios, and was worse in wet weather when the fence would arc to ground, wet posts, or in breaks in the line.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:11 pm
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TimJB wrote:
It's still odd that both amps started acting up at once.

This is a stretch, but you said you're in a rural area. Do you have a neighbor with horses or livestock? A long time ago I lived on a horse farm, and we used an electric fence. That caused a large amount of electrical noise on radios, and was worse in wet weather when the fence would arc to ground, wet posts, or in breaks in the line.


BINGO! We have a winner!

After a lot of tube swapping, reverb tank swapping, trying different outlets, etc. all resulting in different outcomes.

I thought I had it licked with the verb tank swap and the ground question but that wasn't it.
Yesterday I plugged in my TubeWorks combo in and it too has the ticking sound.
So I then knew it wasn't the Fender amps.

Tonight I took the CVR upstairs and plugged it in and no ticking, but it was still ticking downstairs.
Odd and odder.
So, I headed outside to go get something from a store. It was dark and quiet...except for a distinct ticking sound coming from the neighbors electric fence that he put up a couple of years ago to keep his horses in their area. The tick sounded exactly like what I am hearing from the amps, same sound, same tempo.
Luckily it was dark so I could see the spark. Went to it and pulled the lower chicken fencing off of the electric wire and the arc stopped. Went back in, fired up the amp, NO ticking!
Hurrah!

Man, what chore of testing and trying everything.
Stratele eluded to a potential that something from a neighbor could be the issue but the electric fence didn't click until I went out tonight and heard it.
When I came in to post I read TimJB's post and had to laugh as that is what is was. :)

So, is this just one of those things, or does it point to a potential grounding issue?

My house is a bi-level where the basement is only partially in the ground about 4ft and the rest above ground.
Could that be why the ticking was heard in the downstairs living room but not upstairs that is higher above ground?

This next to the ground thing may also explain why when I plugged the amp into the downstairs laundry room I heard the ticking clearly, but as I lifted the amp up to put it on the washing machine the ticking level decreased.
I'm going to have to keep an eye and ear on the neighbors electric fence.

Well, at least I've learned something. :)
Now I'd like to know if there is something I can do to help avoid this in the future if it happens again.
Suggestions welcome.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:18 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
" Is it possible that the transformers on 2 separate amps can be the flaw? "

And show the exact same "ticking" symptoms? Highly unlikely. You have something riding on top of your AC power. Or some EMF being transmitted in the air. Isolation tranny or similar device should eliminate it. I said should, because sometimes you need to go to heavy duty isolation trannies to fully eliminate the source. I have TOPAZ ISO's running on all of my computers and TV's --- to keep their noise out of the lines. Overkill, I know... :lol:

JOC... did you have any work done on your house's wiring? And are the outlets you are using on those new wires? Or is the house old with only two prong outlets? Sometimes, when the hot and neutral are reversed from what is wired in the amp --- the amp can makes noises. Though, I haven't heard of ticking noises from this polarity issue. But, just a thought.


I bought a Furman PL-8C earlier this week just to see if it would help. I don't know if it has the quality iso's you're describing.
It didn't stop the ticking but the amps seems a bit quieter overall at idle.
This power conditioner is supposed to be a pretty good one so I may just keep it anyway.
It's only $150, discounted from $190, and it should last a good long time.
It has 9 outlets so I've plugged in everything AV into it like amps, TV, wireless router, cable box, Voodoo power supply, and a couple of other things.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 8:51 pm
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The key that gives it away is that you are in a rural setting. I'd bet 10 to 1 it's an electric fence charger in the vicinity.
If you can find the charger and clear weeds away from the wire or pour water around the ground rod you might be able to minimize it. It's tough to shield the amps against it.


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:45 pm
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He may need to wire-in better input coax cables. As well as run a good Topaz. Grounding differential between his house and the neighbor's maybe inducing part of the problem. Only way to eliminate the ticking is to better isolate his amp from the power (isolator unit) and insulate the gain stages from RFI.

FWIW... I like these iso's:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... 4/$_57.JPG


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Post subject: Re: Electronics whiz's please help
Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:22 am
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TimsAudio wrote:
The key that gives it away is that you are in a rural setting. I'd bet 10 to 1 it's an electric fence charger in the vicinity.
If you can find the charger and clear weeds away from the wire or pour water around the ground rod you might be able to minimize it. It's tough to shield the amps against it.


Really? Did you deduce that without reading the post that said exactly that? :lol:

Some of you should try reading the threads before responding. :wink:

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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