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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:21 am
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Hey all first post. I have on order 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb. Can't wait and I know you'll want pictures. Moving up from my Hot Rod Deluxe which sounds great. I worry about its reliability and this 68 series seems really good. Always dreamed of a Twin but if you read enough posts the weight and power is an issue. The CVR should weigh the same. I'm sure I'll warm to the tens.
Looking forward to sharing the break in


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:26 am
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ken374, yep, I set the Treble on the "Custom" side of my '68 CVR at 4 (5 on the "Vintage" channel). That's more for higher volumes, though, as in 5 or above. If the amp's Volume is below 5, sure, I can turn up the Treble. The thing is, when the Volume is below 5 nothing's really happening. It's basically a bedroom amp at 4. I always have the Volume at 5 or 6, and the Treble at 4 seems to work. Doesn't matter whether it's the hi- or low-impedance input, SSS Strat or humbuckers, the Treble at 4 seems to be where it's happiest once the Volume is at a realistic level.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:45 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Do you feel the two amps sound very similar, with the main differences being the CVR's greater clean headroom and the addition of the Bright switches? Or do they sound entirely different from each other?

I had them at different times, so I wasn't able to A/B them, but my impression was that the CDR broke up sooner and was, perhaps, a bit less mid-scooped, especially on the "Vintage" channel. I think I might also say that the CVR was, none too surprisingly, a bit louder.

The one definite difference is the CVR's lack of the 'pop' sound when Standby is engaged, and my CVR has significantly less white-noise hissing than my CDR had.


To me the amps, of course, have the Fender family base tone.
The 2 amps are different tonally beyond that base tone.

I still prefer the CDR's overall warmer tone along with it's richer mids. The CVR is the better clean and loud map as it has a higher headroom before breakup. This is common as the CDR has lower wattage 6V6 tubes and the CVR uses 6L6's.

The CVR does have a more scooped quality, which works pretty nicely when used with higher gain distortion pedals. CVR is quieter than CDR at stock settings with stock tubes. I just installed a pair of Tung Sol 6V6's into my CDR and biased according to my ear and the low level hum is down by at least 75% along with nearly no hiss. The CDR is now very similar to my CVR in terms of hum and hiss when not playing.
There is still a loud "thunk" when turning standby on on the CDR. The CVR does not have any of that nonsense.
Standby on or off any time results in quiet operation.

Even when using the same speakers between the 2 amps the basic tonal difference is still there.
IOW, plugging both CDR and CVR into my 2x12 V30 cab still results in the CDR having a warmer and richer mid tone, and the CVR having a slightly scooped quality. Cleans and clean headroom remains the CVR's domain between the 2 amps.

As I've written before, either amp will give a player a great Fender tone. If you like a cleaner amp with higher volume and headroom with a tighter clean the CVR is the amp you may prefer.
If you like a warmer mid tone richer amp that breaks into power tube distortion at a lower volume level, then the CDR may be the one for you. I like both of them.
Also, I do prefer these new 68 custom silver face amps. Having 2 different tone stacks is really nice along with verb and trem on both channels. It gives more versatility, but Fender really needs to make the channels footswitchable. Plus the increased touch sensitivity is real and I prefer the 68 over the 65. The 65 DRRI is also a fantastic amp no doubt about it, it's got a classic tone. But for me the 68 CDR spoke more to me and felt better to play and I don't miss the brightness of the 65 DRRI.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:21 pm
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Yep, that comparison jibes with my impressions of the two amps. Give me the '68 CDR's warmer mids with the CVR's greater versatility and lack of noise issues and I think we'd have the perfect amp. In the meantime, I'll try to warm up the CVR with different speakers. I'll also go with richer, fuller-sounding pickups for my Strat.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:09 am
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I bought the '68 Vibrolux reissue cause it offers something my other Fender amps don't. I like the sound the way it is, prefer it to the '68 reissue of the Deluxe Reverb or the Princeton reverb. I typically only play through the vintage channel using input 2. I use input 2 on all my amps, never input 1 - this for all my Gibson guitars and my Fender strat. I get warmer tones using input 2. I find the CVR sound is very warm, the spkrs are fine, the reverb not overbearing like it can be on my '65 DRRI. I typically play my amps in stereo, have 2 sets of 2 amps using modulation pedals in between. I have 5 delay pedals. The sound of 2 amps in stereo is way better than any of my amps played alone. I either play through a '65 Princeton Reverb reissue along with a Laney Lionheart 1x12 combo OR a '65 DRRI with a HRD III special run - the special run hasa Jenson spkr instead of a Celestion and also has a smoother taper to the controls. I AB'd the stock HRD III with this special run model and the special run has a warmer, smoother, rounder tone. I find that the '68 CVR can stand on its own better, not needing another amp to give me that 3D sound I love to hear when I play my other sets of 2 amps together. I only play clean with delay/chorus so I don't care about breakup. The amp is very quiet at moderate listening levels for enjoyment and recording. For anyone who is interested about the delay modulation setups I connect my guitar (either Gibson '61 SG reissue or Gibson 2003 SG special faded or Gibson '93 Nighthawk or Fender 2012 rosewood strat [and soon 2012 Fender mexican classic maple strat]) => MXR Analog Chorus - used as an enhancer more than a chorus =>MXR Carbon Copy delay (used as expander more than a delay with regeneration/feedback set to zero, delay level 9:00, mix 10:00)=>Vox Delaylab=> stereo out into '65 Princeton Reverb reissue and Laney Lionheart's clean channel. I use mostly the stereo ping pong and stereo pan effect on the Delaylab. In my 2nd set up I either use the Empress Tape Delay after the guitar or the Pixtronix Echolution II Deluxe delay pedal (stereo outs) => Lehle Little Dual A/B/Y => HRD III & '65 DRRI or I use guitar=> Lehle Little Dual with one output into '65 DRRI and 2nd output => Moollon Aquarius Delay => HRD III. This is a pretty cool imaging effect! I am purchasing the Neunaber Chroma Stereo Chorus & EXP pedal and will use this in the latter setup and with my new '68 Vibrolux amp. I use Evidence Audio Lyric HG patch and 10' cables along with a George L cable from my guitar into 1st pedal.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:34 am
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Hi gonzaldo,

Congrats on the new amp, sounds like a great choice.

Once again, the '68 Vintage Modified series are not reissues. There are no silverface reissues, at all. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:14 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Yep, that comparison jibes with my impressions of the two amps. Give me the '68 CDR's warmer mids with the CVR's greater versatility and lack of noise issues and I think we'd have the perfect amp. In the meantime, I'll try to warm up the CVR with different speakers. I'll also go with richer, fuller-sounding pickups for my Strat.


Wanted to let you know that what really warmed up my CVR.
The factory bias was set to around 17mA!
COLD.
I adjusted it to 42mA, WARMTH in tone came in and richer harmonic tone.
Installed SED Winged C 6L6's at 42mA and the tone is now superb, even though Fender should have put better speakers in this amp.
Sorry couldn't resist another jab.

Check your bias and warm it up if it's not right.
Then you may want to splurge on some power tubes.
The Winged C's sound great and unfortunately they have now become NOS as they are no longer made.
I got a matched pair a few months ago for around $80-$90, and now the prices have gone way higher.
I also have another matched set from a year ago that I got for a few dollars less.

There are still some matched pairs new for $110-$120.
There is a new quad selling for $205 shipped! Great price and you'll have a spare set or sell it. :)
Fantastic tube over all.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:30 pm
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Rverb, I may warm up the bias some, but I'll be honest here, I've done eight bazillion power-tube swaps over the years, and never have I noticed any significant differences. Same with the preamp tubes, unless I changed the output of V1, such as replacing a 12AX7 with a 12AT7 or 12AY7. Otherwise, swapping in NOS Mullards or JAN Phillips or whatever never did much of anything, even compared to the supposedly crappy stock Chinese and Russian tubes. Any differences I ever noticed were so slight as to be easily chalked up to the Placebo Effect. In terms of power tubes, again, only swapping types (EL34 vs 6L6 or KT88 or whatever) seemed to create much change.

I know this shameful admission pegs me as a soulless, tone-deaf troglodyte among the corksniffing cognoscenti, but oh well. I've spent far too much time and money chasing that particular dragon, until I finally arrived at a wonderfully clarifying epiphany: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Increasing the bias will change the tone a bit, or, rather, the response, warming it up into earlier breakup. I'm not sure that's what I want, though. If anything, I want greater clean headroom, so that sweet spot of 5-6 becomes loud enough that I don't have to push the amp into OD in order to be heard over a drummer and second guitarist. That's partially why I'm going with the more efficient Weber alnicos, to increase the overall volume while hopefully also reducing the top-end bite.

On the flipside, yes, warmer is still better. I may yet bite the bullet and bump up that bias. And, knowing what a dumba#@ I am, I'll probably cave in and do a tube swap anyway. It's pathetic, really. It's almost an addiction.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:49 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Rverb, I may warm up the bias some, but I'll be honest here, I've done eight bazillion power-tube swaps over the years, and never have I noticed any significant differences. Same with the preamp tubes, unless I changed the output of V1, such as replacing a 12AX7 with a 12AT7 or 12AY7. Otherwise, swapping in NOS Mullards or JAN Phillips or whatever never did much of anything, even compared to the supposedly crappy stock Chinese and Russian tubes. Any differences I ever noticed were so slight as to be easily chalked up to the Placebo Effect. In terms of power tubes, again, only swapping types (EL34 vs 6L6 or KT88 or whatever) seemed to create much change.

I know this shameful admission pegs me as a soulless, tone-deaf troglodyte among the corksniffing cognoscenti, but oh well. I've spent far too much time and money chasing that particular dragon, until I finally arrived at a wonderfully clarifying epiphany: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Increasing the bias will change the tone a bit, or, rather, the response, warming it up into earlier breakup. I'm not sure that's what I want, though. If anything, I want greater clean headroom, so that sweet spot of 5-6 becomes loud enough that I don't have to push the amp into OD in order to be heard over a drummer and second guitarist. That's partially why I'm going with the more efficient Weber alnicos, to increase the overall volume while hopefully also reducing the top-end bite.

On the flipside, yes, warmer is still better. I may yet bite the bullet and bump up that bias. And, knowing what a dumba#@ I am, I'll probably cave in and do a tube swap anyway. It's pathetic, really. It's almost an addiction.


As to whether or not tubes change an amps tone that's for each person to decide.
I certainly respect your viewpoint as I have no reason not to.
What you hear is what you hear and that's for each person.
As for me, I can hear tone differences with certain tube changes.

Now, that's not to say that every different tube has some huge difference on tone every time.
Yet, there are tonal differences that I hear with certain pre and power tubes.
With most other tube amps I've owned those tonal differences are harder to detect when swapping tubes, but with my Fenders I was really surprised at how much difference I could hear.

When I adjusted the bias from it's OEM cold setting to a much hotter bias I distinctly heard a difference, and I heard the difference as well from the stock GT 6L6 tubes to the SED 6L6's.
Some like you feel it's placebo, I do not share that experience.
I'm not one to buy into fanciful esoteric ideas.
Some say tube swapping falls into that realm.
I too thought so at one point until I started trying it myself, and I came into it with a very skeptical POV. My experience and ears proved me wrong.
Your experience is different and valid. If you don't hear it, then you don't hear it.
It doesn't mean anything negative or positive, just a different experience.

A slight digression.
Some love how cilantro tastes, but I am one of those who thinks it's flavor ruins things.
And now they've actually discovered that certain people can taste certain flavors as stronger or weaker than others, cilantro being one of those flavors.
I'm sure there is something similar with how people hear and perceive sounds/tones.
Some people are really bothered by high frequencies as they can detect them much easier than others.
For example, with older tube TV's, when I was younger, I used to be REALLY bothered by a bad flyback (a TV part) that creates an ultra high pitched continuous tone.
I could perceive it easily and it physically hurt my ears.
But, most other people had no idea what I was talking about.
Humans share common senses, but how each individual perceives and responds to the same sensory inputs falls along a wide scale.
Some feel really cold when it's 50F outside while others wear shorts when it's below freezing.
Go figure. :)

If you don't notice much or any difference with tube changes, then you don't need to spend the money on tubes that others claim will turn an amps tone into angels singing. :)
I do share your thinking that I can be really happy with the OEM tubes in my amps and frankly I am.
It's just that I am one of those who can hear a difference and am thus cursed to spend money and time on tubes when I really don't have to.

Often I get to the point where I stop tweaking and just enjoy what's there and to spend much more time on playing rather than fiddling around with the tech aspect of my gear.
Improving my playing and tonal style is much more important than chasing the gears technical tonal character.


Last edited by Rverb on Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:55 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Increasing the bias will change the tone a bit, or, rather, the response, warming it up into earlier breakup. I'm not sure that's what I want, though. If anything, I want greater clean headroom, so that sweet spot of 5-6 becomes loud enough that I don't have to push the amp into OD in order to be heard over a drummer and second guitarist. That's partially why I'm going with the more efficient Weber alnicos, to increase the overall volume while hopefully also reducing the top-end bite.

On the flipside, yes, warmer is still better. I may yet bite the bullet and bump up that bias. And, knowing what a dumba#@ I am, I'll probably cave in and do a tube swap anyway. It's pathetic, really. It's almost an addiction.


On this aspect I'm with you as I want the clean headroom on my CVR.
I was worried that increasing bias would lead to earlier break up, and it probably has.
However, I don't crank this amp much past 3 as I mostly play it at home levels.
That's why I own distortion pedals when I want the crunch or saturation.
The CVR's clean tone is what I most appreciate and like about this amp.
For my volume levels the cleanliness is still there, yet the hotter bias has increased the harmonic quality, which is what I guess I am describing as "warmer". It sounds fatter in the mid range, which I associate with warmth.
Definitions of words can be tricky.
As one highly respected linguist once said, "vocabulary is evidence of the inability to communicate".
I found that to be both funny and profound. :)


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 4:53 pm
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srv,haha i do the same thing

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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:43 pm
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Rverb, I agree with you 100% that increased mids means "warmer." I nearly always shoot for increased mids, too. My favorite high-gain tones are always thick, smooth, and borderline dark. Same thing, with cleans. I prefer SRV's "Tin Pan Alley" and "Riviera Paradise" style of cleans, not the super-spanky, bright and twangy Nashville country/Twin Reverb cleans. I like rolled-off highs, and fat mids.

Pretty much, what we hear with the '68 CDR, right? I just want a bit of those warm mids in my '68 CVR, and, come hell or high water, I'm going to get them! (While still retaining loads of clean headroom and oodles of sparkly Fender chime, of course!)

:mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:43 am
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stevieraygovan wrote:
.........but I'll be honest here, I've done eight bazillion power-tube swaps over the years, and never have I noticed any significant differences. Same with the preamp tubes, unless I changed the output of V1, such as replacing a 12AX7 with a 12AT7 or 12AY7. Otherwise, swapping in NOS Mullards or JAN Phillips or whatever never did much of anything, even compared to the supposedly crappy stock Chinese and Russian tubes. Any differences I ever noticed were so slight as to be easily chalked up to the Placebo Effect. In terms of power tubes, again, only swapping types (EL34 vs 6L6 or KT88 or whatever) seemed to create much change.

I know this shameful admission pegs me as a soulless, tone-deaf troglodyte among the corksniffing cognoscenti, but oh well. I've spent far too much time and money chasing that particular dragon, until I finally arrived at a wonderfully clarifying epiphany: If it ain't broke, don't fix it...............

:D Finally! Another person who hears (or doesn't hear) as I do. We're certainly the minority on these amp forums.

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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 7:16 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Rverb, I agree with you 100% that increased mids means "warmer." I nearly always shoot for increased mids, too. My favorite high-gain tones are always thick, smooth, and borderline dark. Same thing, with cleans. I prefer SRV's "Tin Pan Alley" and "Riviera Paradise" style of cleans, not the super-spanky, bright and twangy Nashville country/Twin Reverb cleans. I like rolled-off highs, and fat mids.

Pretty much, what we hear with the '68 CDR, right? I just want a bit of those warm mids in my '68 CVR, and, come hell or high water, I'm going to get them! (While still retaining loads of clean headroom and oodles of sparkly Fender chime, of course!)

:mrgreen:


You'll find it, hopefully with a speaker, and then you can tell me what it is and I'll give it a shot. :)

BTW, I've got a bunch of 5751 pre's some NOS and some JJ's.
I'm going to start rolling them into V1 to note any differences.
If I find one that I think really makes a noticeable difference I'll send it to you to try out to see/hear if you don't notice anything.

5751's in V1 can do some cool things as they are not as hot as 12ax7's and a bit hotter than a 12at7.
I'm also going to roll them into the phase inverter to hear what these NOS 5751's can do.
BTW, I find that I prefer an unbalanced PI tube.
I think it may be because it is unbalanced and perhaps creates some odd phase oscillations that I like.

I should have time this weekend to try all this out.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb: observations and questions
Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:14 am
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Well, yes, I'm sure I would notice a difference with a 5751 in V1. Those have lower output than a 12AX7. Changing the output is the one thing that always makes for noticeable differences.

My Weber AlNiCo 10A150 speakers finally arrived, and I installed them yesterday. Besides making the amp significantly heavier, the two other obvious differences vs the stock Celestions are the increased volume and punchier low end. The amp sounds very similar now to my 40w 2x12 Bogner, which is housed in a much larger cabinet. Compared to that Bogner, my '68 CVR used to sound a bit boxy, like a cleaner, brighter, oversized Blues Jr III. It no longer sounds boxy. Much bigger, fuller sound. I'd say it's still just as bright as before, but now there's a lot more bottom end. Smacking the low E-string causes a nice punch to the chest.


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