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Post subject: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:56 am
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Hello everybody! :mrgreen:

I'm new to the forum but I've been reading it for the past few days and wow, there are some people here with some great knowledge on amps!

Well, I would like to hear from the SS Twin 100w Head or Combo owners what tube configurations they have, what they most like in which position, etc.

I also would like to ask you about your preference in pre-amp tubes and output tubes. I know it's a personal matter of taste but at least would give me some idea where to start looking for some nice pre-amp and output tubes.

I was thinking about changing the V1 and V2 with Tung-Sol 12AX7's, PI with Mullard 12AT7 and the output tubes I'm not quite sure. I'm not a professional guitar player but I am an audiophile, all my music and audio equipment have to sound "perfect" to my ears and right now the gain channel of my amp sounds really muddy, dark...i can't get a "fender" tone from it. Any suggestions of output tubes ?

Thank you all for your help!

_________________
2012 Highway One Tri Tone Suburst w/ SD SSL1's
Squier Daphne Blue w/ D. Allen Strat Cat
Golden (made in Brazil) w/ SD JB/bridge and SD Cool Rail/neck
2011 Fender Super Sonic Twin 100W Combo
Fender Champion 30

....and I still want some more...always! ;)


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Post subject: Re: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:14 am
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Hi ToneAddicted,

Official welcome to the forum (again :wink: )

Although I don't own this amp, I think that Tung Sol and Mullard are excellent choices for just about any amp.

If I understand correctly, you want to change the tone of only the Burn channel (gain channel)? If so, V3 and/or V4 would be the tubes to start with for that channel. V1 will affect both channels, and V2 will affect only the Vintage channel. Sometimes a combination of two different tubes might be what it takes. Chasing tone can be time consuming, and it might take a few tries, or you might hit it the first time.

Here is a list of tube positions for this amp that I posted in the other thread, for you and others that want the info.

Each preamp and PI tube has two triodes (halves) contained in a single tube.

V1 - 12AX7, 1st two preamp stages, half for Vintage, half for Burn
V2 - 12AX7, 2nd (tone stack recovery) and 3rd preamp stages for Vintage only
V3 - 12AX7, 2nd and 3rd preamp stages Burn only
V4 - 12AX7, 4th and 5th preamp stages Burn only, first half is Cathode follower configured
V5 - 12AT7, Reverb driver
V6 - 12AX7, Reverb recovery
V7 - 12AX7, Effects loop driver (send), first half used as Cathode follower (next to last preamp stage) when effects loop not engaged, vintage and burn
V8 - 12AX7, Half for effects loop recovery (return), half final preamp stage for vintage and burn
V9 - 12AT7, phase inverter (PI), drives output tubes
V10, V11, V12, V13 - Output tubes

Let us know your results/thoughts if you swap some tubes. Be sure to pay attention to the tube pin alignment to the socket and note the gap in the pins.

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---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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Post subject: Re: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:18 am
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shimmillou,

Once again thanks for your help! :D

I think I got the gist of the pre-amp tubes, but I was thinking in changing the PI too because I read they drive the output tubes. Would it change the tone too ? And what about the output tubes ? I believe that changing them affect the tone, but how would that change the tone in comparison with the pre-amp tubes ?

I think I have read here on the forum information about "matched pair or quad", "burned in", "balanced triode", etc. Are these options just a marketing thing or do they really make a difference ?

I just don't want to CHANGE the tone, I want to make it better, like I said before, the gain channel is really muddy, dark and lifeless.

I'm sorry about all the questions :oops: but since I have recently moved to Brazil I won't be able to keep trying and testing tubes.

Thank you all for your help!

_________________
2012 Highway One Tri Tone Suburst w/ SD SSL1's
Squier Daphne Blue w/ D. Allen Strat Cat
Golden (made in Brazil) w/ SD JB/bridge and SD Cool Rail/neck
2011 Fender Super Sonic Twin 100W Combo
Fender Champion 30

....and I still want some more...always! ;)


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Post subject: Re: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:18 pm
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The PI tube is important, more for affecting the breakup point, or "smoothness" of the output tubes production of sound, than for tone, but yes, the PI tube choice is important and will affect the sound that the amp produces.

Matched pairs, and matched quads of output tubes are important so that both halves of the output section of the amp work equally, and for longer tube life. Burned-in tubes are thought to be a bit better because they have been tested under load and have passed the initial test of use. Sometimes new tubes can fail initially, and the burn-in is just some assurance that the tubes will last. Most users agree that using matched sets of output tubes is best, but many probably don't bother with paying extra for burned-in sets. I don't usually feel the need to pay extra for burned-in tubes, and I typically buy from reputable vendors, so I've had very good success with tubes and doing my own burn-in.

Balanced triodes refers to preamp/PI tubes, and simply means that both halves of the tube have the same gain and characteristics. Balanced triodes are generally desirable only for the PI position, so that both halves of the output section are driven equally.

Your tone is first created/shaped by the preamp section, so the preamp tubes will have the most impact on your tone, and the output tubes are important to amplify that tone in the best way possible.

Everyone has their favorite brand of tubes, so it's hard to say what is best for your taste. A good place to start is knowing what type of tubes that you have now and then make an informed decision of how you want to shape the tone. If your Vintage channel sounds good, that can be an indication of decent output tubes. If you currently have GT tubes, they use a variety of brands, including EH and other Russian brands, as well as Chinese made tubes. Sometimes the tube label can indicate which type that you have. For example a GT 6L6GC-R would indicate a Russian made tube, maybe EH or Sovtek, while a GT 6L6GC-C indicates a Chinese made tube.

For an example of tube swapping to change tone, typically Sovtek tubes are just good all-around tubes, and changing a Sovtek tube for a Tung Sol might add some character to the tone. The possibilities are near endless, and the many different brands of tubes, combined with varying tastes, can make for some interesting choices.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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Post subject: Re: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:43 am
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shmmilou,

Thank you very much for your time in explaining so clearly. What vendors do you recommend ? Like I said, i've moved to Brazil and I can't send back bad tubes.

I think I'm gonna buy a few 12AX7's to experiment and a set of TAD 6L6WGC-STR's.

As soon as I make the modifications will let you guys know.

Thanks.

_________________
2012 Highway One Tri Tone Suburst w/ SD SSL1's
Squier Daphne Blue w/ D. Allen Strat Cat
Golden (made in Brazil) w/ SD JB/bridge and SD Cool Rail/neck
2011 Fender Super Sonic Twin 100W Combo
Fender Champion 30

....and I still want some more...always! ;)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: SS Twin Output and Pre-amp Tubes Configuration
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:02 pm
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Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
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TAD tubes are another excellent choice. TAD also offers great preamp tubes, and I like the 7025WA. It is a good idea to get a few different types and try them in various positions.

I am not sure about shipping to Brazil, but these are three of my preferred tube suppliers for new production tubes.

http://www.tubesandmore.com/

http://thetubestore.com/

http://www.tubedepot.com/

Have fun! 8)

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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