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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:02 pm
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Are we equating fir with pine here? That cab in the making looks like fir G1S ply to me. No?

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 3:09 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Are we equating fir with pine here? That cab in the making looks like fir G1S ply to me. No?

Pine 1x12s and pine plywood for the speaker baffle


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:49 pm
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r.llc wrote:
faze wrote:
the pine cab adds some warmth and also has a little bit better head room before break up.
Its also lighter...


I'm happy to hear you like pine, thats what I chose for my 2x12 cabinet. It's low cost and easy to work with.

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Great Choice im sure with those speakers its going to sound great...
Heres my Vibro King
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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:04 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Pine is a softer lumber than say ash, walnut, or maple. But it's very strong and resonant, which is why Leo Fender specified it for all of his cabinetry. .....


As Mr Fender was principally devoted to cost engineering I am sure the only reason he chose pine was because it was cheap and easy to work with. If it had/has any sonic advantages I am equally sure this was only a happy coincidence and not by design in his case.

I would hazard a guess that cabinet design and construction has a much greater influence on acoustics than using pine. A poorly constructed (loose jointed) pine cabinet isn't going to sound better than a well designed and constructed cabinet of other materials.

Pine is advantageous because its joints need to be well formed to produce a solid construction. This must be a good thing, and certainly dovetailed cabinets must be better than butt and glue construction. Ply and MDF don't dovetail well which is why other forms of construction are used for these materials.

Whether Pine is sonically better is a debate which could run and run. Audiophile speaker manufacturers like MDF because it is consistent through all production. Cheap speaker manufacturers like it because it is cheap and easy to work with. Pine isn't by comparison, but Leo didn't have MDF and even plywood would have been relatively expensive compared to what is the cheapest of solid timber.

If you could make any specific claim about the tone characteristics of a pine cabinet that must be tempered by the fact that every one must be different as every piece of timber is different.

All that aside - if I was making a reproduction Fender Champ I would, of course, have to have a pine cabinet. This isn't because it may or may not be acoustically better but because that is what the originals were made of.

Obviously there will be sonic differences between a solid pine cabinet and one made of (now) cheaper materials. I regret that I haven't had the opportunity to A B two identical amps in identical cabinets of pine and MDF/Ply. I would like to hope that the pine one would sound more mellow, and certainly popular hearsay would suggest such. ... but I think there may be some mythical properties credited as well. So what, if it sounds better to you (and Fender and others can sell it as an advantage :-) )?

I would say, of the cabinet above, I think the size of the speakers compromises the rigidity of the baffle. The bridge between the two speaker apertures looks rather thin to me.

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:20 pm
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John Sims wrote:
I would say, of the cabinet above, I think the size of the speakers compromises the rigidity of the baffle. The bridge between the two speaker apertures looks rather thin to me.


Thanks for the feed back John. The thin bridge between the speakers is a compromise,
I intentionally put the speakers close together to make the cabinet as small as possible. I will
be making a brace on the baffle in attempt to make it as ridged as possible. I'll post a picture
as it starts to take shape.


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:38 pm
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faze wrote:

Heres my Vibro King
Image


Are you completely happy with the Vibro King? It looks real nice. What is the cabinet & baffle made of?


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:37 pm
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r.llc wrote:
faze wrote:

Heres my Vibro King
Image


Are you completely happy with the Vibro King? It looks real nice. What is the cabinet & baffle made of?

Yes I am very happy with it. This one is pine. I have another 1993 Vibro King and its baltic Birch.
The difference between the two amps are subtle. The older one has a little less headroom and it breaks up a little faster then the pine.
The pine is a 20th anniversary model and its speakers are pre broken in jensens.
The pine is warmer and buttery in tone compared to the origional they both sound very good.
I use my older one every Sunday at church and it never lets me down.
The Vibro King is my favorite amp. Its got that touch response and huge 3D like tone.
The way the three speakers work together is awesome. It's like surround sound.
My older one has the emminece blue frame speakers and they crunch up real nice.
The 20th anniversary sounds real smooth the overall tone is stilll the same.
The Pine model has more headroom you can crank it up to about 4 and it starts to break up.
My older one starts to break up at about 3. They must have tapered the volume on these new ones.
Both get the job done for me I love my Vibro Kings.


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:23 pm
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faze wrote:
Yes I am very happy with it. This one is pine. I have another 1993 Vibro King and its baltic Birch.
The difference between the two amps are subtle. The older one has a little less headroom and it breaks up a little faster then the pine.
The pine is a 20th anniversary model and its speakers are pre broken in jensens.
The pine is warmer and buttery in tone compared to the origional they both sound very good.
I use my older one every Sunday at church and it never lets me down.
The Vibro King is my favorite amp. Its got that touch response and huge 3D like tone.
The way the three speakers work together is awesome. It's like surround sound.
My older one has the emminece blue frame speakers and they crunch up real nice.
The 20th anniversary sounds real smooth the overall tone is stilll the same.
The Pine model has more headroom you can crank it up to about 4 and it starts to break up.
My older one starts to break up at about 3. They must have tapered the volume on these new ones.
Both get the job done for me I love my Vibro Kings.


Thanks for the detailed post, I have never had an opportunity to plug my guitar into a Vibro King but will be looking for an chance.


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:02 pm
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r.llc wrote:
faze wrote:
Yes I am very happy with it. This one is pine. I have another 1993 Vibro King and its baltic Birch.
The difference between the two amps are subtle. The older one has a little less headroom and it breaks up a little faster then the pine.
The pine is a 20th anniversary model and its speakers are pre broken in jensens.
The pine is warmer and buttery in tone compared to the origional they both sound very good.
I use my older one every Sunday at church and it never lets me down.
The Vibro King is my favorite amp. Its got that touch response and huge 3D like tone.
The way the three speakers work together is awesome. It's like surround sound.
My older one has the emminece blue frame speakers and they crunch up real nice.
The 20th anniversary sounds real smooth the overall tone is stilll the same.
The Pine model has more headroom you can crank it up to about 4 and it starts to break up.
My older one starts to break up at about 3. They must have tapered the volume on these new ones.
Both get the job done for me I love my Vibro Kings.


Thanks for the detailed post, I have never had an opportunity to plug my guitar into a Vibro King but will be looking for an chance.

You will not regret it. Even if its an older model. The changes they made on the anniversary model are not tone related. The tone is still pretty much the same. The volume is just tapered a bit and the pine is a little warmer.


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:25 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
The '68 is not a RI, nor a Twin for that matter. :wink:


Maybe not an RI, but how is it not a Twin?

Fender calls it a "Twin", I'll call it a "Twin".
The original Twin was not on a PC board, so if semantics is the issue, then all new PC board Fender amps aren't what their names claim them to be. :)


Last edited by Rverb on Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:32 pm
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63supro wrote:
I feel the sonic advantages of a pine cabinet far outweighs the softness issue. My 5e3 clone is pine and it's a very lively and resonant cabinet.


Seems most Fender speaker cabs are made of various woods using birch, pine, and maple according to Fender's specs.
The 68 CDR, CVR, and Twin are made of birch and pine.
68 Princeton is birch and maple just like the HRD3.
65 Princeton is birch and pine.
The 65 DRRI and Twin are made of birch.

Basically their amps use those 3 woods, and they only list "plywood" for some of their amps but not all.
For example, the 68 Princeton is listed as birch/maple plywood.
But the 68 CDR lists only "birch and pine" but does not specify plywood.

How much of this is decided one wood tone vs cabinet cost, I don't know.


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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:38 am
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Birch is the most common timber for quality ply so I would assume Birch is a reference to birch ply, but I could be wrong.

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:06 am
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Aside from buying a vintage Fender amp whose cabinet specs are well-known, the only way to be assured of the material composition is to build it yourself......

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:38 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I never scrimp, I never shortchange. The only corners I cut are on the lumber itself.

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Post subject: Re: Solid pine...how about the whole Vintage Reissue line?
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:52 pm
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I was wondering is your cabinet solid pine or pine plywood. Hard to tell from picture. I am building a solid pine cab for my champ 600. Will post pics when done.


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