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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:58 am
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Finally play the new Virbrolux it was the first time the amp was turned on. I pulled the power cord out and jammed. There was kind of noise going on like something wasnt plugged in all the way:( even when the guitar wasnt plugged in, still sounded good though. The Princeton was nice also! it rocked! yeah the 6th string bass is pretty dominate but man all the 68 sound fantastic along with my 68 twin. There pretty similar sounding so you can go wrong.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:42 am
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Rverb wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Rverb, it's been more than 48 hrs now, have you changed your mind again yet? :lol:

Keep both, use an A/B switch, and waffle no more. 8)


:lol: I shall waffle no more, put away the syrup.

No, it's done deal this time.
I have past the 60 day return for the CDR, so it's mine ALL MINE!
I still have the CVR though. Got such a great deal on it that I'm seriously considering keeping it for a while. A/B or maybe run in dual mono, sweet tone when both are playing.
I have TC Electronics Flashback delay with stereo out so I ran both amps and together they sure do sound sweet. Nice brightness with some compression from the CVR with the rich creamy mids of the CDR. Quite nice. :)

I think I can easily sell it for what I paid even extremely lightly used. CVR will never leave the house and it's in perfect working order.

since you already had the 68 twin how do all 3 sound with pedals for dirt? I always test pedals at the store with the 68 deluxe and I own the twin you think theres much difference with the bright cap off on the twin over the deluxe ? deluxe has a rec tube and the 6v6 I know. Do love the loud clean tones I get that those cant do.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:16 pm
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ken361 wrote:
Rverb wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Rverb, it's been more than 48 hrs now, have you changed your mind again yet? :lol:

Keep both, use an A/B switch, and waffle no more. 8)


:lol: I shall waffle no more, put away the syrup.

No, it's done deal this time.
I have past the 60 day return for the CDR, so it's mine ALL MINE!
I still have the CVR though. Got such a great deal on it that I'm seriously considering keeping it for a while. A/B or maybe run in dual mono, sweet tone when both are playing.
I have TC Electronics Flashback delay with stereo out so I ran both amps and together they sure do sound sweet. Nice brightness with some compression from the CVR with the rich creamy mids of the CDR. Quite nice. :)

I think I can easily sell it for what I paid even extremely lightly used. CVR will never leave the house and it's in perfect working order.

since you already had the 68 twin how do all 3 sound with pedals for dirt? I always test pedals at the store with the 68 deluxe and I own the twin you think theres much difference with the bright cap off on the twin over the deluxe ? deluxe has a rec tube and the 6v6 I know. Do love the loud clean tones I get that those cant do.


I hope I didn't word it wrongly, but I don't have a 68 Twin.
I have a 68 custom dlx reverb and a 68 custom vibrolux.

Both sound great with dirt pedals!
The custom dlx has a more vintage quality with distortion and the vibrolux has a more modern compressed quality.
Not that either is a "Metal" amp, but the vibrolux would be more the metal sounding amp with high levels of gain, especially when driving it with a Wampler Triple Wreck pedal.

If you like the brightness that a Twin reverb can achieve, then try the vibrolux as it has a bright switch on both channels and you can get pretty darn bright when it's engaged.
The custom dlx is not as bright as the DRRI, but I prefer the custom dlx tones over the DRRI and that's because it's not as bright.
The DRRI has a noticeably nicer/sweeter reverb.
The custom vibrolux also has a nicer reverb over the custom dlx.
Vibrolux's reverb is closer in quality to the DRRI and TRRI, it's just smoother than the custom dlx I have.
It's still a nice reverb though it could be smoother imo.

The clean tones from the custom vibrolux as much more like the TRRI as it stays cleaner at higher volume compared to the custom dlx and DRRI.
Vibrolux is as close to a half power TRRI as Fender offers right now.

Still waiting on an actual half power, single 12" or 15" "Custom Single Reverb".
Basically a half power, half the speakers, at least HALF the weight, Twin. :)


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:13 am
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I've had my Custom '68 Vibrolux for 3 months now, i've had a good 25 hours worth of playing through it & i've listened to Jam buddies playing through it too. I love the amp, it looks gorgeous, the size and weight is perfect. What swayed it for me was the shared reverb. I love fender reverb and this amp for me is basically giving me 2 usable channels, the tweedy tone I love as well as what I really wanted which is the whole silverface/blackface kinda vibe but with the bonus of the reverb on both the channels, I wanted the extra headroom compared to the various Deluxe type amps too so this was the perfect combo for me. (I've come from a Blues deluxe RI ) I was eyeing up the supersonics but something just was not swaying me from the videos of them online. I'm miles away from any shops to try these out that's even if they have any in store too so I took a informed gamble and went for it and Im glad I did.

Anyway fast forward a bit and what struck me was although the amp sounded great, I realised that I wanted a little bit extra. It sometimes sounded cold dynamically, and the treble and bass would seem to lose definition after playing for a few hours. and when up around 5/6 on the volume I wasnt too pleased with the speaker break up and the treble prominence. it was sometimes too harsh. So I had a mooch round and came up with a plan just to see if I could get the Amp how I wanted it and I think I've hit the nail on the head for me personally.

I swapped out the Celestions and fitted up a pair of Jensen C10Qs, I upped the Factory Bias at the test point from 58mv to 68mv, I also put in 3 x JJ 5751 tubes, V1 & V2 and also the phase inverter. the logic for this being to swap the front end to rear end breakup ratio. Its totally transformed the Amp, I mean ridiculously transformed the amp. Its awesome, Im totally over the moon. I know the tubes might not last as long as stock but I spend maybe £50 a year for strings for all my guitars so I dont mind budgeting for a bunch of tubes if required.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:05 pm
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steve13881 wrote:

I swapped out the Celestions and fitted up a pair of Jensen C10Qs, I upped the Factory Bias at the test point from 58mv to 68mv, I also put in 3 x JJ 5751 tubes, V1 & V2 and also the phase inverter. the logic for this being to swap the front end to rear end breakup ratio. Its totally transformed the Amp, I mean ridiculously transformed the amp. Its awesome, Im totally over the moon. I know the tubes might not last as long as stock but I spend maybe £50 a year for strings for all my guitars so I dont mind budgeting for a bunch of tubes if required.


Steve,

By upping the bias has the clean headroom lessened or remained about the same?
You kept the stock 6L6's right?

I too like the 5751's I have, they are Jan Phillips.
But, in this amp both exhibit microphonic issues.
Tonally they are fantastic. I've never tried the JJ's 5751.
5751's
How would you rate the JJ's 5751's compared to a typical 12at7 and 12ax7?
What brand tubes were stock in your amp?
I'm sure they were likely labeled "GT", but do you know what manufacturer they actually are?


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:59 pm
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Although I'm not a JJ fan, I definitely like their 5751 quite a bit. I have used about a half-dozen with great results. Sovtek (of which I am a fan), 5751s have been hit or miss for noisy operation.

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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:32 am
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Reverb, what I was saying that you did own the 68 twin for short while correct? sent it back I believe.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 8:41 am
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I felt the Jensens upped the clean head room straight away, and it sounds so much more classic Fender. The Bias adjustment brought the headroom back down again slightly and its helped it break up again but it seems to be so much more dynamic and musical if that makes sense? When compared to the cold bias with a early break up Ten 30 speakers ie as stock.

The original tubes were all GT, I kept the stock 6L6's as they have made in russia stamped on them so I presume they are the GT branded JJ's. The JJ 5751s have nicely mellowed the pre amps, but not as much as a 12 At7 would do (I tried those in my old BDRI )

The 5751s still allow a nice amount of gain but no where near as much as the 12AX7's. They definitely have mellowed the excess treble. when the amp was stock at 5/6 on the volume I had the treble at 3 and the bass on 7 to stop it being to harsh. funny though below 5 on the volume the bass and treble was great but in a loud band situation the bass was getting totally lost. The 5751 pre amps have lowered the gain but the 5751 phase inverter has compensated and brought the gain back but this time by letting the output tubes drive harder. overall im getting great Fender clean with a hint of break up at 5/6 on the volume but now around 7 on the volume its still sweet as hell, no fizzle / treble/ harsh breakup and its sweet. now I can have the treble and bass both level on either channel and its balanced. Volume, treble, bass all at 6, reverb at 2.5/3 ......... Fender heaven!


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:20 pm
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steve13881 wrote:
...The original tubes were all GT, I kept the stock 6L6's as they have made in russia stamped on them so I presume they are the GT branded JJ's...


They are either Sovtek or EH. The JJ made GTs aren't stamped with anything before receiving the GT label. If you could post a picture of the original label, maybe they can be identified.

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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:36 am
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Can anyone comment on the difference in "feel" between the two amps - CDR and CVR at low volume?

Having played the CVR, it feels somewhat stiff at volume levels below 5. Also pedals sound somehow sterile at low volume levels. I love the CVR's tone past 5, but it's friggin loud for home practice and I feel I am not getting the "real feel" at volumes below 5.

I have not played the CDR, but I am guessing it feels spongier and bouncier at lower volumes due to its tube rectification? Is this assumption correct?

Also, a question to CDR owners - does the CDR keep up (clean-ish) with a drummer in a full band environment. I'm thinking heavy hitting drummer and an aggressive slap bass player?

From the videos I have seen, the Deluxe definitely sounds nicer and the crunch is also nicer than the CVR, but I wonder if it can keep up with a loud band and be gigged without being mic'd.

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:16 am
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tremolo arm wrote:
Can anyone comment on the difference in "feel" between the two amps - CDR and CVR at low volume?

Having played the CVR, it feels somewhat stiff at volume levels below 5. Also pedals sound somehow sterile at low volume levels. I love the CVR's tone past 5, but it's friggin loud for home practice and I feel I am not getting the "real feel" at volumes below 5.

They're both sterile and devoid of any real feel at low volumes. Neither is a good "bedroom" amp at all. 5 is the beginning of the sweet spot for both amps; that's when they bloom and begin to sound like their respective nameplates. At 4 they're both decent; not great, but decent. Below 4, there's nothing happening. They're ungodly quiet, and utterly uninspiring. If you have these amps and really want to enjoy them, you had best plan on playing them loudly. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. Practically any other Fender sounds better at low volumes.

Quote:
I have not played the CDR, but I am guessing it feels spongier and bouncier at lower volumes due to its tube rectification? Is this assumption correct?

Nah, not really. In a blind 'feel' test, you're not going to be able to tell them apart, especially if there is any truth to Fender's insistence that they built in a bit of tube rectification-style sag into the CVR's rectifier. Regardless, no, the CDR doesn't feel any different to play.

Quote:
Also, a question to CDR owners - does the CDR keep up (clean-ish) with a drummer in a full band environment. I'm thinking heavy hitting drummer and an aggressive slap bass player?

Define "clean-ish."

:lol:

Basically, no, if you need clean headroom in a band with a loud drummer and/or a second guitarist, the CDR won't stay clean enough at those volumes. It gets crunchy, especially with humbuckers. 5 is when it gets crunchy, and it's also when it takes a sudden leap in volume. Below 5, nope, it is not loud enough to do what you describe.

Quote:
From the videos I have seen, the Deluxe definitely sounds nicer and the crunch is also nicer than the CVR, but I wonder if it can keep up with a loud band and be gigged without being mic'd.

Thanks

Generally, no, it can't, not unless you're willing to accept a bit more crunch than you're describing, or you're at least willing to use the guitar's volume to clean up that crunch tone. With the CDR and its increased negative feedback the clean/crunch dividing line will always be a precarious balancing act.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:47 am
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stevieraygovan wrote:
tremolo arm wrote:
Can anyone comment on the difference in "feel" between the two amps - CDR and CVR at low volume?

Having played the CVR, it feels somewhat stiff at volume levels below 5. Also pedals sound somehow sterile at low volume levels. I love the CVR's tone past 5, but it's friggin loud for home practice and I feel I am not getting the "real feel" at volumes below 5.

They're both sterile and devoid of any real feel at low volumes. Neither is a good "bedroom" amp at all. 5 is the beginning of the sweet spot for both amps; that's when they bloom and begin to sound like their respective nameplates. At 4 they're both decent; not great, but decent. Below 4, there's nothing happening. They're ungodly quiet, and utterly uninspiring. If you have these amps and really want to enjoy them, you had best plan on playing them loudly. Otherwise, you will be disappointed. Practically any other Fender sounds better at low volumes.

Quote:
I have not played the CDR, but I am guessing it feels spongier and bouncier at lower volumes due to its tube rectification? Is this assumption correct?

Nah, not really. In a blind 'feel' test, you're not going to be able to tell them apart, especially if there is any truth to Fender's insistence that they built in a bit of tube rectification-style sag into the CVR's rectifier. Regardless, no, the CDR doesn't feel any different to play.

Quote:
Also, a question to CDR owners - does the CDR keep up (clean-ish) with a drummer in a full band environment. I'm thinking heavy hitting drummer and an aggressive slap bass player?

Define "clean-ish."

:lol:

Basically, no, if you need clean headroom in a band with a loud drummer and/or a second guitarist, the CDR won't stay clean enough at those volumes. It gets crunchy, especially with humbuckers. 5 is when it gets crunchy, and it's also when it takes a sudden leap in volume. Below 5, nope, it is not loud enough to do what you describe.

Quote:
From the videos I have seen, the Deluxe definitely sounds nicer and the crunch is also nicer than the CVR, but I wonder if it can keep up with a loud band and be gigged without being mic'd.

Thanks

Generally, no, it can't, not unless you're willing to accept a bit more crunch than you're describing, or you're at least willing to use the guitar's volume to clean up that crunch tone. With the CDR and its increased negative feedback the clean/crunch dividing line will always be a precarious balancing act.


I think this settles it for me
I need to have the clean sound at high volume for when I have to do the Chili Peppers type of rhythm, so the Deluxe doesn't seem like it will cut it. I rely mostly on pedals to get crunch / lead sustain, so my first choice (Vibrolux) seems like the correct one. Your opinion that the Deluxe doesn't feel any different to the Vibrolux (in terms of bounciness / sag / whatever you want to call it) settles it for me.
Thanks for the input


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:42 am
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Well, fwiw, I've had both amps, and since I want greater clean headroom and that nice, warm sweet spot at 5 to be loud enough to play un-mic'd in an open jam setting I opted to keep the '68 CVR, and haven't looked back. In fact, I will soon be adding a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb just to get that thicker Bassman crunch tone at much lower volumes. Best of both worlds: '68 CVR for louder band situations, the '68 CPR for quieter things.

So, there you go. :-)

In terms of a second opinion, Rverb will likely be along shortly to add his two cents to this discussion. He still owns both amps, and seems to favor the more mids-happy tone of the '68 CDR. Keep in mind, however, that his needs don't necessarily mirror yours. My primary goal was to address your band volumes/clean headroom/amp-feel questions, and your requirements very closely mirror mine.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:10 pm
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stevieraygovan wrote:
Well, fwiw, I've had both amps, and since I want greater clean headroom and that nice, warm sweet spot at 5 to be loud enough to play un-mic'd in an open jam setting I opted to keep the '68 CVR, and haven't looked back. In fact, I will soon be adding a '68 Custom Princeton Reverb just to get that thicker Bassman crunch tone at much lower volumes. Best of both worlds: '68 CVR for louder band situations, the '68 CPR for quieter things.

So, there you go. :-)

In terms of a second opinion, Rverb will likely be along shortly to add his two cents to this discussion. He still owns both amps, and seems to favor the more mids-happy tone of the '68 CDR. Keep in mind, however, that his needs don't necessarily mirror yours. My primary goal was to address your band volumes/clean headroom/amp-feel questions, and your requirements very closely mirror mine.


Wow, am I late to the party. :)
I completely missed this thread.

As you've correctly stated the CVR stays cleaner at volume compared to the CDR.
If a player wants a cleaner tone with a bit higher volume, then the CVR is likely the better amp for that player.

I don't have to contend with a loud drummer so my needs are different and for me I prefer the CDR.
As for "feel", both of these amps have a very nice and lively feel that gets better as you turn it up.
But as you turn them up the CDR starts to break into distortion sooner even at the same perceived volume level, meaning the CVR sounds cleaner at the same higher volume levels.
Also, the CVR starts with more power from 6L6 power tubes, which to my ears are also cleaner and tighter sounding than 6V6's.
Plus, the CVR has 2 speakers instead of one and due to that the clean volume goes a bit louder than the single 12" of the CDR.

When you add a second speaker to an amp it is effectively going to give you a +3db increase in perceived volume, which is the point at which there is a noticeable increase in volume.
Keep in mind though that this comparison is only true when comparing speakers of the same efficiency rating.
For example:
Amp 1 has 20 watts of amp power into a single 90db efficiency rated speaker.
It will produce 90db of volume at 1 watt measured at 1 meter.
If you add a second speaker to this amp the measured volume will see an increase of 3db at that same 1 watt measured at 1 meter. Effectively this is the same as doubling the amps power output, meaning that the 2 speaker amp at 20 watts will be as loud as a 40 watt amp driving just 1 of those speakers.

If the 68 CVR is still not clean enough at the volume a player needs, then you can add a 2 speaker cabinet that will give you another 3db increase if you run all 4 speakers of the same efficiency rating.

Another way to increase the volume is to get speakers that have a 3db higher efficiency rating.
If the stock speakers are rated at 89db, then look for speakers that have a 92db rating, that will effectively give you an increase of 3db in volume with the amp set at the same levels, again, effectively doubling the CVR's power.
NOTE: Doubling the power is not double the volume. Double the power is only a +3db gain in volume.
This is why a 35 watt amp is not much louder than 25 watt amp when driving the same speaker/s.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 8:39 pm
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Quote:
If the 68 CVR is still not clean enough at the volume a player needs, then you can add a 2 speaker cabinet that will give you another 3db increase if you run all 4 speakers of the same efficiency rating.


One thing to remember is that the CVR is running at 4 ohms in parallel which is already is the recommended mimimum impedence. Adding another 4 ohm cab would drop the total resistance to 2 ohms at which point you may have some overheating problems with the output transformers.


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