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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:15 pm
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Reverb, after 3 days of those Celestions in the 68CVR I'm leaning towards the Ragin' Cajuns. The 1x12 Texas Heat rings my bell! I am feeling like the "British Sound" doesn't really work as well with this amp as the "American" or "Cali" sound on this amp.

I'm hoping you have access to an American voiced speaker/speakers for your sound tests. Opinions are like belly buttons...everyone's got one. But I do respect yours.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:13 pm
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Mine has plenty of bottom end, mid range, and high end sparkle.

It's one of the best sounding amps I've ever owned, I couldn't be happier with it just the way it is.

RGM


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:15 pm
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Lynn Nicholson wrote:
Reverb, after 3 days of those Celestions in the 68CVR I'm leaning towards the Ragin' Cajuns. The 1x12 Texas Heat rings my bell! I am feeling like the "British Sound" doesn't really work as well with this amp as the "American" or "Cali" sound on this amp.

I'm hoping you have access to an American voiced speaker/speakers for your sound tests. Opinions are like belly buttons...everyone's got one. But I do respect yours.


I don't have access to any American type speakers.
I've got the 12" in the CDR and my 2x12 cab with Celestion V30's that are decidedly
British. :)

BTW, are you using a single 12" with your CVR? Is it in a single cab?
I'll plug in the CVR to the CDR's 12" and hear what that's like.
It'll give me an idea of what the CVR would sound like with a single 12 in it's cab.

After doing more playing and testing tonight I've learned something I've not encountered in all my years of playing guitar.
The scratchy pots ARE indeed being caused by the Tung Sol 12ax7's.
It's the weirdest thing. In all of my tube amps these tubes have been great no problems at all. And they sound great and even sound great in the CDR and CVR.
But in either of the Fender amps the Tungs cause the volume pots to be scratchy and loudly scratchy too.
This has to be something related to class A amps. All the other tube amps I've had have been master volume amps.
These Fender amps REALLY respond to pre tube changes in a much more profound way compared to master volume amps.
By design it makes sense.

I swapped in some Sovtek LPS 12ax7's and Jan Philips 5751's in both amps and both amps sound great and the pots are as quiet as they should be. Go figure.
So now both amps have some very nice sounding pre's, and I am running 12ax7's for the verb send in both amps too instead of the stock 12at7/ECC81, and for me I like the added verb quality of the higher gain verb send.
In the CVR I put in a JJ's ECC81 instead of the stock GT 12at7 in the phase inverter positiong, and I like ECC81 in there.
The CDR has a Jan Philips 5751 in the PI position, sounds really nice in there.

Played both amps for about 2.5 hours and my conclusion is that both of these amps are fantastic. No one can go wrong with either of these amps.
There are tonal differences and feel differences too.
The CDR has more low end on the lower frequencies and the CVR has more mid bass.
As I said before, that's likely due to the speakers. The CDR's 12" is able to produce more low end and has the magnet size to move that air at good volume.
The 2x10's are smaller yet have a nice sized combined area, but don't reach down as far, but do have a cool mid bass push.

Chimey quality is there in both amps. The CVR has bright switches so it's capable of even higher level of higher mids. The CDR has a sweeter mid quality and to my ears gives me more of the Fender mid punch and warmth.
The eq seems to have a greater range and change on the CDR likey due to not having a bright switch. The CVR's eq range is a bit narrower, but with the bright switch you get an added range.
Reverb quality is about the same, very nice and very Fender.

Feel is great on both amps, very responsive. My preference is the CDR regarding sensitivity and response just by a small amount.
There is a tad more sag in the CDR as it has an actual rectifier tube.
CVR is solid state and it has a punchier quality playing certain things.

I really need an A/B switch so that I can switch between the amps quicker while playing.
I'm looking into getting one.
So far all my testing has been with my '91 Strat Plus Dlx.
Tomorrow I'm trying the Schecter C1 with HB's and a PRS copy semi hollow w/HB's to hear what the differences may be.

With my distortion pedals both amps respond nicely.
I have to say that right now my preference is the 68 CDR due to it's warmer mids and has a bit more harmonic quality on clean and with distortion.
These 2 amps are really close in tonal quality and feel and it makes for a tough decision.
Each player will like something on each one.
They are too close for me to justify keeping both.

The one thing that is clearly superior on the CVR is that it's silent when switching on the standby. The CDR makes a loud pop, and that's with all 3 CDR's I've had.
I don't know why Fender doesn't address that. Maybe they do have a fix.
If so I may take it to an authorized dealer and have it corrected.

Well there's another long post on my part. :)
Now I need to stick a mic on each amp and record some stuff and then edit for some sound samples before I get to the point that I have to return one before I end up owning both. I haven't found enough time yet to do it.
My apologies.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 10:23 pm
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Relic G Man wrote:
Mine has plenty of bottom end, mid range, and high end sparkle.

It's one of the best sounding amps I've ever owned, I couldn't be happier with it just the way it is.

RGM


I agree. It's a really great sounding amp with lots of nice features.

Some of us just can't seem to leave well enough alone cause we got to tinker. :)
Soooo....I went through the amp to make sure all the screws were nice and snug.
On the speakers the screws turned in too easily, so I tightened them up a bit.
BUT, the basket surround is really thin and weak metal.
As I slowly tightened the screws I could see the metal actually bending, so I stopped as I didn't want to cause any deformation of the cone.
I may actually back them out a bit and add some washers just to make sure.
Fender could have done a better job on attaching the speakers on both the CDR and CVR.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:16 pm
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Quoting Rverb:
"BTW, are you using a single 12" with your CVR? Is it in a single cab?
I'll plug in the CVR to the CDR's 12" and hear what that's like.
It'll give me an idea of what the CVR would sound like with a single 12 in it's cab.

After doing more playing and testing tonight I've learned something I've not encountered in all my years of playing guitar.
The scratchy pots ARE indeed being caused by the Tung Sol 12ax7's.
It's the weirdest thing. In all of my tube amps these tubes have been great no problems at all. And they sound great and even sound great in the CDR and CVR.
But in either of the Fender amps the Tungs cause the volume pots to be scratchy and loudly scratchy too.
This has to be something related to class A amps. All the other tube amps I've had have been master volume amps.
These Fender amps REALLY respond to pre tube changes in a much more profound way compared to master volume amps.
By design it makes sense."

I have a 30 year old Mesa Boogie 1X12 cab that has had probably four or five different speakers in it in the last 30 years. First was I think a MB Black Widow, then a couple of Jensens, and now my second Eminence...this one is the Texas Heat 4 ohm. It's a nice match for my TRRI head and this CVR. The TRRI head is now gone, as is my DRRI. The DRRI comes with one Jensen C12K (100 watt speaker in a 22 watt amp!...nice).
Above you said these were "Class A" amps. Hm-m-m. I haven't seen schematics for the 68 Custom _____ Series, but most Fender amps that I know of, going way back that have two or four power tubes, are class AB1 push-pull circuits, and I suspect that these are too. And regarding the preamp tubes causing the volume pots to be scratchy? That really IS weird!! But looks like you did indeed find and fix the problem. My CVR is a very quiet amp. Have not seen any issues with popping switches or scratchy pots.

Part of my quest has been to find an amp that sounds like the 65 TRRI (or the original, actually), only at 40 watts and 42 lbs. The CVR comes close with the exception of the speakers. So, do I start messing with this amp's speakers to get a better Twin sound, or bite the bullet and go back to the Twin and live with the weight and power? I'm about a month and a half away from 67 years old. I don't gig outside of church, although if the music scene here were better I'd jump at the chance to get back in it! If I did, the Twin would simply be too much amp.


Last edited by Lynn Nicholson on Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:26 pm
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BTW -
The CDR has a Celestion G12V-70 speaker in it.
The CVR has two Celestion "Ten 30" speakers.
The DRRI has one Jensen C12K
And the TRRI has two Jensen C12K's.

The one G12V-70 is most likely 8 ohms. And using it as a comparison to the two tens in the CVR will tell you something about the difference in sound between the two, but they are both still what Eminence would call "British voiced" speakers. Then again, I don't think that the "voicing" of the speaker is an issue for you, as it is for me. But I would not use one 8 ohm speaker on the CVR for hours of playing fun. It could be a problem for the OT or power tube part of the amp circuit. Trying it out for testing purposes would be OK.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:59 pm
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Lynn Nicholson wrote:
Quoting Rverb:
"BTW, are you using a single 12" with your CVR? Is it in a single cab?
I'll plug in the CVR to the CDR's 12" and hear what that's like.
It'll give me an idea of what the CVR would sound like with a single 12 in it's cab.

After doing more playing and testing tonight I've learned something I've not encountered in all my years of playing guitar.
The scratchy pots ARE indeed being caused by the Tung Sol 12ax7's.
It's the weirdest thing. In all of my tube amps these tubes have been great no problems at all. And they sound great and even sound great in the CDR and CVR.
But in either of the Fender amps the Tungs cause the volume pots to be scratchy and loudly scratchy too.
This has to be something related to class A amps. All the other tube amps I've had have been master volume amps.
These Fender amps REALLY respond to pre tube changes in a much more profound way compared to master volume amps.
By design it makes sense."

I have a 30 year old Mesa Boogie 1X12 cab that has had probably four or five different speakers in it in the last 30 years. First was I think a MB Black Widow, then a couple of Jensens, and now my second Eminence...this one is the Texas Heat 4 ohm. It's a nice match for my TRRI head and this CVR. The TRRI head is now gone, as is my DRRI. The DRRI comes with one Jensen C12K (100 watt speaker in a 22 watt amp!...nice).
Above you said these were "Class A" amps. Hm-m-m. I haven't seen schematics for the 68 Custom _____ Series, but most Fender amps that I know of, going way back that have two or four power tubes, are class AB1 push-pull circuits, and I suspect that these are too. And regarding the preamp tubes causing the volume pots to be scratchy? That really IS weird!! But looks like you did indeed find and fix the problem. My CVR is a very quiet amp. Have not seen any issues with popping switches or scratchy pots.

Part of my quest has been to find an amp that sounds like the 65 TRRI (or the original, actually), only at 40 watts and 42 lbs. The CVR comes close with the exception of the speakers. So, do I start messing with this amp's speakers to get a better Twin sound, or bite the bullet and go back to the Twin and live with the weight and power? I'm about a month and a half away from 67 years old. I don't gig outside of church, although if the music scene here were better I'd jump at the chance to get back in it! If I did, the Twin would simply be too much amp.


Yeah, I'm not fully versed in what is true class A vs AB.
I should have said, I like the feel of non Master volume amps like Fenders.
The response is sweet and they really respond to different tubes and I really like that.

I want the same thing as you, a Twin clean tone with that luscious verb, but with half the power and half the weight.
A single 12" speaker, 40 watts of 6L6, same tone circuit as the Twin Reverb, and an effects loop. I've emailed Fender suggesting to make that amp.
They can call it the "Single Reverb" or "Single-Verb".
No need for vibrato/tremolo.
The CVR is close but not quite that amp.
It doesn't have the clean headroom nor the Twin tone circuit.
And the Single-Verb should be of the "modified" series where both channels have different tone stacks and have verb.

With the tubes all taken care of on my CVR, it's nice and quiet as it should be and as it was when I took it out of the box with it's OEM tubes.
It never had any popping or humming. Seems all CDR's have that "pop" when switching ot standby, and the pop is LOUD. I think the DRRI's also have this popping on standby switching thing too.
Also, my CDR does have a slight hum that is there when it's quiet.
The CVR doesn't. They are both using the same power source so it's not the power source.
Plus my ther 2 amps have never had any hum.
The CDR's hum is very low though with an ever so slight increase when cranking the reverb.

Tried the amps with each others speakers. All I found was each amps individual tone shaped by a different speaker, as of course it will be.
But the 2x10's sound a bit more scooped vs the single 12.
Bass is good with either set of speakers.
The single 12 Celestion sounds to be more efficient.
Leaving the amps volumes and settings the same, when I changed the speakers the 12" has a volume increase with the CVR, and conversely the CDR had a volume drop with the
2x10's.
I like the single 12" Celestion more with both amps.

To my ears the CDR has a bit more clarity on single notes and solo's and a bit more slippery feel and that's with either speaker/s.
With my high gain distortion pedals on the CVR when I engage the bright switch I have to turn down the treble, and then it takes on a more mid scooped tone that sounds really cool for hard and metal type stuff especially on chords.
The CDR's tone controls and overall sound are a bit more mid present and I have a slight preference for it still.
As to which amp I'll keep it's getting to the point that I may just flip a coin. :)
They are both great amps.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:26 pm
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With the luxury of having both amps on hand for a back to back comparison and revealing the 1 x 12" Deluxe seemingly gives very little to nothing away sonically compared to the CVR I think I'd go with the Deluxe. Slightly smaller, very convenient platform with a just as big sound and future "tuning" via any speaker swaps will enjoy a much wider and more economical choice of voicings from the smorgasbord of 12" speakers available.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:31 am
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No457 Snowy wrote:
With the luxury of having both amps on hand for a back to back comparison and revealing the 1 x 12" Deluxe seemingly gives very little to nothing away sonically compared to the CVR I think I'd go with the Deluxe. Slightly smaller, very convenient platform with a just as big sound and future "tuning" via any speaker swaps will enjoy a much wider and more economical choice of voicings from the smorgasbord of 12" speakers available.


That's interesting... sounds like the 68's are much closer to each other than the CVR and DRRI are.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:25 pm
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The only thing I think Fender could have and should done better in the CVR is the speakers.
The Celestion TEN-30 speakers are not that great. They are quite inefficient, and tonally don't let the CVR shine like it really can.

The CDR's Celestion V type speaker is a very nice speaker and worthy of being in a Fender.
Given the CVR's low cost speakers it makes me wonder why it costs $200 more cause it ain't the speaker quality. 2 TEN-30's cost less than 1 V type.

I say this especially after plugging both the CDR and CVR into my 2x12 cab with
Celestion V30's. Wow. Both amps sound great coming through the V30's, and the CVR really shines with them.
Even plugging the CVR into the CDR's 12" it sounds better than the 2 TEN-30's.
Plugged into the 2x12 V30's the CVR sounds VERY much like a half power TRRI, VERY nice.

Running the CVR with better speakers and high gain/distortion pedals it sounds awesome, if you like a somewhat lower mid, not quite scooped, sound, which I do.
The bright circuit in the CVR is really bright almost to a faulty, but it's very controllable and thus usable when eq'd properly on both the amp and guitar.

The higher efficiency of the V type and V30's lets the CVR play louder while maintaining a nice clean headroom that sounds great for clean and really shines for high gain/distortion pedals.
The CDR breaks up fairly quickly even by 4 on the volume. It sounds great and adds nicely to distortion pedals.
But if you want more clean headroom at higher volume the CVR has that over the CDR.

So this round of testing has me swaying more towards the CVR, but, if I do keep it I will need to get better speakers fairly soon. After trying it with better speakers I'm surprised Fender thought the TEN-30's were the proper choice, especially considering the $200 upcharge.

I've got to get into the amp and see if it's possible to remove the 2x10 baffle. If so I may go with a single 12" to get a nice low end.
If not, then I found some great 10" options that have some promising spec's where I may get as much if not better low end.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:39 am
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Come to think of it, my Mustang III has a superb model of the Twin Reverb and it sounds amazingly like a Twin. The Mustang III comes with at Celestion G12T-100 12" speaker in it. Since it is a Celestion, I presume it is "British-voiced."

So, perhaps Rverb is correct in his assessment of the "Tens" that come on the CVR. i.e. they're just cheap speakers and Fender could have done a lot better from the get-go. I do believe there is a pair of Rajin' Cajuns with my name on them to be coming my way in the near future!


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 9:58 am
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The speakers in mine sound great, wouldn't change a thing about this amp. :)

RGM


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:19 am
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I just picked one up yesterday, and unfortunately, it's going back.it sounds beautiful but the noise floor is just too much hiss. I traded in my SS22 for it, thinking it would be a quieter amp. The other thing that bothers me is that Fender used the cheapest speaker they could in an effort to keep the cost low, knowing that it would be the first thing to be replaced. Disappointed.


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:23 pm
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mmcwill wrote:
I just picked one up yesterday, and unfortunately, it's going back.it sounds beautiful but the noise floor is just too much hiss. I traded in my SS22 for it, thinking it would be a quieter amp. The other thing that bothers me is that Fender used the cheapest speaker they could in an effort to keep the cost low, knowing that it would be the first thing to be replaced. Disappointed.


Get another CVR.
If you got one that is noisy/hissing, then that's not a good CVR.
My CVR is very quiet, quieter than my 68 CDR. The CDR doesn't have hissing but it has a low level hum that's not bad once I start playing. For recording it might be a problem but it's not that loud.
The CVR is not a supersonic and not really intended to be an SS.
It's closer in tone to a lower power Twin Reverb mated with a DLX reverb.
Before giving up try one more CVR.

I've said it already and I'l agree with you, the Ten-30 speakers are what keep the CVR from being the best it can be.
Yes, it's still a very good sounding amp with those speakers, but it's an even better sounding amp with the V-type in my CDR and with the V30's in my 2x12 cab.

It's not a big issue though. Since there are 2x10 in the cab I'm only going to change one and listen for what it does. With 2 different speakers in there it might be really good.
That is if I keep the CVR, which has won a few tone rounds recently against my CDR. :)


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Post subject: Re: 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb Reviews
Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:07 pm
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More noise is the result of lower negative feedback.
Normal.

Bright switch popping occurs in every blackface Fender amp ever made.
Normal.

The Custom channel is totally different from the Vintage channel.
Why should the volumes be the same at the same knob settings?
Normal.


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