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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 8:12 pm
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2.6 or was it 3.6? I get 3.27 with my 5E3 and 6.54 across 2 & 7. Seems low to me! Also a 6L6GC should have at least 30 uf at 1st Filter Cap.. Sounds like Rectifier Heater Voltage number not Power Filaments.

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:31 pm
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Is the center tap of the heater supposed to be grounded or not? Are there 100-ohm resistors hanging off each end of the heater line?


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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:46 am
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No center tap, and does have the 100 ohm resistors. With no center tap, I measure the heater voltage to ground, it's more consistent, 3.6 VAC

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:49 am
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Cap47 wrote:
2.6 or was it 3.6? I get 3.27 with my 5E3 and 6.54 across 2 & 7.....


Perfect, as 6.3 is the heater requirement. :)

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:22 am
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If your band likes to play loud the 22watts of clean head room probably has caught up to you. Both the amps you mention are great but .... Cranking them up to play with loud band memebers and rolling back the volume knob on the guitar doesn't yeld the cleanest of tones. (although thier is nothing wrong with a little dirt in the clean.. I know plenty of guitarist that love it that way) Myself personally, rather than mod a DR to take 6L6 I'd look for something bigger.. Since you like the Deluxe reverb line....maybe the 85watt twin or the Super Reverb would probably be the best tool for you. Both those amps will put that loud drummer in the background where he belongs... lol!


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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:48 am
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pcalugaru wrote:
....maybe the 85watt twin or the Super Reverb would probably be the best tool for you. Both those amps will put that loud drummer in the background where he belongs... lol!


+1

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:31 pm
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Would it not be easier and a bunch safer for the amp and more practical to simply use an extension cabinet to increase headroom? It seems to me that asking a single 12 (with only 22 watts driving it) to keep up with a heavy handed drummer is not feasible. IMO, a 2nd driver is in order here. Preferably an efficient one. Maybe be even two.

No?

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:56 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Would it not be easier and a bunch safer for the amp and more practical to simply use an extension cabinet to increase headroom? It seems to me that asking a single 12 (with only 22 watts driving it) to keep up with a heavy handed drummer is not feasible. IMO, a 2nd driver is in order here. Preferably an efficient one. Maybe be even two.

No?

I wouldn't expect much change in headroom unless the additional (or replacement) speaker(s) were significantly more efficient. Better dispersion for sure which may aid in being able to hear it better at the same volume.

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:59 pm
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That doesn't compute for my old codger brain.
I admit I am no amp guru.
I love amps but I'm not very savvy on the tech side of things.
What I do have is decades of experience.
If I have a combo amp that's almost enough grunt for the situation but not quite, I add an extension cabinet and I get my much needed grunt.
I can't even count the number of times an extension cabinet has made the difference between being heard and being lost.
I have a 50 watt 1x12 Boogie combo.
It doesn't even dream of being in the same league as a 50 watt head and a 4x12 cabinet.
Humour this old geezer.
Tell me what I'm missing.

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:12 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Humour this old geezer.
Tell me what I'm missing.


I think what IM4Tone is inferring (correctly) is that a more efficient speaker -- ie: a higher SPL -- would "trick" the amp into being louder than with a less-efficient driver. A mere 3 dB increase in the SPL would be a significant improvement. Thus a JBL D120F with a SPL of 100 would be palpably louder than an import Jensen C12K with a SPL of 94 dB.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 8:20 pm
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The short answer is the amp produces wattage. Speakers convert that wattage into another form of energy...sound. They cannot create more energy (i.e. they're passive). The wattage divides between speakers, so 2 speakers get 1/2 the wattage of one. Assuming same impedance and identical sensitivities, the energy is just split between the two.

You will hear a difference due to dispersion and probably like it (I certainly do). It may make it easier to hear depending on the setup.

If more speakers gave higher volume, theoretically you could just keep adding speakers to a 1 watt source and get infinite volume, taking things to extreme.

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:26 am
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This still doesn't compute for me.
I "get" the math part of the issue but I can't help going back to the stack.
My Boogie is 50 watts but most Boogies are 100 watts.
You guys are saying a typical 100W 1x12 combo is as loud as a 100 watt full stack if loaded with the same drivers?
I'm sorry but my experience tells me differently.
Rog, you helped me decide to add an extension cab to my bass rig two years ago to keep up with that loud band I was in and it absolutely worked.
What am I missing?

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:17 am
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Don't know what else to tell you, but I contend that increased dispersion is what you've experienced and what 'worked' for you. I continue to believe strongly in the principle/law of Conservation of Energy. Believe what you wish.

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:41 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Rog, you helped me decide to add an extension cab to my bass rig two years ago to keep up with that loud band I was in and it absolutely worked.
What am I missing?


There's another factor (hence more math "equations") that need to be reckoned with and that is the total radiating cone area. Simply put, the more there is, the more air is being moved.

A single 12-inch speaker offers 113 square inches. Multiply that by the total number of drivers in a speaker system and it's quickly apparent that the half-stack enclosure with four drivers is punching out a helluva lot more air than the single cone of a combo amp.

A 15-inch speaker (which is what two of my Deluxe Reverbs are equipped with) yields a radiating cone area of 177 square inches, nearly 35% more than a single twelve. These two amps (otherwise unmodified chassis's) are the loudest Deluxe Reverbs on the planet, easily capable of holding their own against more powerful units such as a Super Reverb, a Vox AC30TB, a Peavey Mace, and others.

Beyond this principle lies the issue of enclosure types. Open-back combos are notoriously inefficient, especially when used outdoors. OTOH, sealed-back bass-reflex enclosures offer enhanced bass response and superior projection since all of the sound produced by the speakers is focused to the front. A folded-horn design is even more efficient though it is generally used only with bass amps such as the Acoustic 370 and various vintage Sunn models.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 6L6 tubes in 68/65 DLX Reverb
Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:17 pm
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Thanks, Arjay.
That's pretty much what I figured.

So, getting back to the OP, a second speaker should move more air overall and if the wattage to each driver amounts to about half then it should also theoretically eliminate or at least reduce any breakup by the drivers themselves.

Should the combination of the two not increase the perceived clean headroom?

If not, then I have to wonder why combo amps even come with an extra output jack at all.

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