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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:14 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
That's what I thought when I saw the springs in that tank, and the plastic shrouded transducers. Maybe a better tank would be the cure.


+1

That tank looks pretty sleazily-made to me as well.

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:48 pm
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Thanks guys for the YouTube link and the suggestions. I gotta say, the reverb in that video definitely sounds like mine. I'm just really surprised at how weak it is. I've opened up the drri tank before and it really didn't look any different then this one. Could the fact it's shared between both channels make it weaker? On 10 I can get a slight surf wet sound but really nothing compared to my friends blues deville which also has weak reverb IMO and that amp is known for poor reverb! The drri reverb above 6 to me was so strong that it wasn't even useable. I wish there was a happy medium. At least it's not broken. If I had to replace the tank id be willing, would that make a big difference? Where does one find a drop in replacement?


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:49 pm
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My amp is in about 50 pieces right now so once I reassemble it, I'll mess around and see if I can at least get the reverb sounding half decent but a little disappointed.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:43 pm
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cormorant wrote:
I've been watching the 68 Custom series with interest. In an online video I saw comparing the two Deluxe Reverbs the 68 Custom did not sound wet or surfy at all whereas the DRRI sounded great. Some of the online reviews I have read mentioned that the reverb is not as strong in the 68 Custom.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zUYUVJr9fBg

Starting at 4:38 is a comparison of both amps with reverb at 4 and then at 10. The difference is considerable.

I am holding out for the 68 Custom Vibrolux Reverb, but I won't buy it if the reverb is that weak. I would be very interested in hearing what you think of your replacement amp.



The reverb I'm obviously unhappy with. The DRRI's reverb was my favourite thing about that amp. In fact, it even sounds better then the '63 tank reissue to my ears. I just couldn't stand having reverb with the bright cap. I couldn't use pedals on the reverb channel so it seemed pointless.

The vibrato is actually better then my DRRI. In fact, it's probably the best tremolo I've ever heard short of actual pitch varying real vibrato. That might be due to them switching back to the optical coupler thing that as far as I know was removed from later DRRI's. I'm also not experiencing any ticking.

The 'Vintage' channel does sound an awful lot like the vibrato channel on the DRRI. It's just a little fuller and glassier. There seems to be more midrange but that might be completely because of the speaker. My DRRI sounded to me like what a deluxe reverb should sound like whereas this amp sounds a little different and more hi fidelity.

The blackface always had this weird quality to it that I've never heard in any other amp, some kind of eq spike that I really liked. The thing is, my jazzmaster is extremely bright and I play a lot of bright guitars in general. On the blackface, id have to put the treble down to 6 and my guitars treble down to 7 otherwise it would be so bright my ears would hurt. With the silverface, I can put everything to 10 and it's still useable. The bass also seems way less farty and a lot more right.

The custom bassman channel seems super super useful. It's dark and chunky. Perfect for the garage rock stuff I play in my band. I like bright thin amps but when I first plugged in to the bassman channel it was a eureka moment.

The amp also feels a little more solid then my drri did but that could be my imagination. It's also advertised as using the Schumaker transformers. The DRRI was originally but that seems to have disappeared from all literature about it so maybe the newer ones use a different transformer.

I haven't had a chance to crank the '68 yet so I can't comment on how it breaks up. From YouTube videos, I actually like the DRRI's break up better but that's something I find you have to do in person. I don't think the silverface breaks up much earlier then the blackface judging from the volumes I have got.

I like the look for the silverface better for what that's worth.

All in all, as much as I like the sound and the idea of the '65, I don't know that it was ever very practical for me and I spent more time playing with eq to get the perfect balance between ice pick and jangle then actually playing. This amp sounds good on any setting and is the sound I heard in my head when I wanted to play guitar. In fact, aside from the reverb it's probably the best amp I've ever played! I'm really excited about it otherwise.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:45 pm
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Also want to add that the DRRI is made in California, while the '68 is made in Mexico but I see no issues in regards to build quality whatsoever.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:32 pm
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Just looking at your tank picture again, and I think I see something at the end of the inner tank. It looks like a black peice that is up against the inner part of the tank, preventing it from floating. Is there something there, or is it just the picture (or my eyes)? Does the inner part of the tank float freely, up and down and end to end?

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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 4:01 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Just looking at your tank picture again, and I think I see something at the end of the inner tank. It looks like a black peice that is up against the inner part of the tank, preventing it from floating. Is there something there, or is it just the picture (or my eyes)? Does the inner part of the tank float freely, up and down and end to end?


Thanks for takin' another look! Forgive my ignorance but I'm not so sure which parts of the tank are supposed to float. Is the inner chassis supposed to float with the springs? I'm not seeing the black piece but here is a hopefully better picture.

http://imgur.com/v5gufIt

Oddly enough, after removing the tank so many times, reverb does seem slightly stronger. Still nowhere near how I thought it'd be though. The trail is good, just doesn't seem
to soak the notes while playing.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:57 pm
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Brianvonbondy,

The aluminum plate holding the long reverb springs and transducers assembly should be floating via the four corner springs attached to the outer shell of the tank.

If you lightly press on this plate, it should rebound back to a position above the outer shell of the tank.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:25 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
The aluminum plate holding the long reverb springs and transducers assembly should be floating via the four corner springs attached to the outer shell of the tank.

If you lightly press on this plate, it should rebound back to a position above the outer shell of the tank.


Correct.

The isolation springs help prevent kinetic linkage between the spring/transducer assembly and the housing which can cause feedback issues, as with this Gibbs/Hammond unit from 1968......

Image

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:49 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
BMW2002Ti wrote:
The aluminum plate holding the long reverb springs and transducers assembly should be floating via the four corner springs attached to the outer shell of the tank.

If you lightly press on this plate, it should rebound back to a position above the outer shell of the tank.


Correct.

The isolation springs help prevent kinetic linkage between the spring/transducer assembly and the housing which can cause feedback issues, as with this Gibbs/Hammond unit from 1968......

Image

Arjay




Thanks rockstar, it looks like it is floating!

Arjay, looking at that reverb unit, I can see how crappily mine is put together.

Are there better reverb tanks made specifically for deluxes? Think it would make a difference?


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:38 pm
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I went to a spare US made Accutronics reverb tank (Cary, IL. #4AB3C1B), I had in my supplies. And replaced the Korean made unit that was OEM in the '63 RI Reverb Unit. I bought a few of these US tanks in the early 1990's and decided to try one in the '63 RIRU.

This tank made a big difference in that unit. Along with replacing the main filter caps with F&T's. And changing a couple of coupling caps to Black Beauties. But the tank and a strong 6V6GT made the most difference. The Reverb Unit went from a weak-to-too much reverb unit to one of a much better range of tone, speed, and depth. So, for this unit, the tank made a big difference.

HTH. Good luck with the amp.


Original tank:

Image

With US made Accutronics:

Image


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:02 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
I went to a spare US made Accutronics reverb tank (Cary, IL. #4AB3C1B), I had in my supplies. And replaced the Korean made unit that was OEM in the '63 RI Reverb Unit. I bought a few of these US tanks in the early 1990's and decided to try one in the '63 RIRU.

This tank made a big difference in that unit. Along with replacing the main filter caps with F&T's. And changing a couple of coupling caps to Black Beauties. But the tank and a strong 6V6GT made the most difference. The Reverb Unit went from a weak-to-too much reverb unit to one of a much better range of tone, speed, and depth. So, for this unit, the tank made a big difference.

HTH. Good luck with the amp.


Original tank:

Image

With US made Accutronics:

Image


That looks real nice! Ideally I would just get one of those but don't want to carry one around. Well, real reason is I can't afford it. They sound HUGE. Probably gonna have to go to the store tomorrow just to play with one now.


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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:41 pm
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Brian, the 4AB3C1B tank that Steve mentioned would be an excellent replacement choice for your Deluxe Reverb. IIRC they run around forty to fifty bucks on Ebay. I know it's crap having to spend that kind of money (or any, for that matter) on a brand-new amp but 'tis the sad state of affairs in which we find ourselves today. Your first course of action should still be letting an FMIC-authorized service center have a go at the issue. If that fails and you insist on keeping the amp, then take a look at outright replacement of the tank.

JMMOC

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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:35 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Brian, the 4AB3C1B tank that Steve mentioned would be an excellent replacement choice for your Deluxe Reverb. IIRC they run around forty to fifty bucks on Ebay. I know it's crap having to spend that kind of money (or any, for that matter) on a brand-new amp but 'tis the sad state of affairs in which we find ourselves today. Your first course of action should still be letting an FMIC-authorized service center have a go at the issue. If that fails and you insist on keeping the amp, then take a look at outright replacement of the tank.

JMMOC

Arjay

Very sound advice!

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Post subject: Re: Reverb problem with a new '68 Deluxe Reverb Custom
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:52 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Brian, the 4AB3C1B tank that Steve mentioned would be an excellent replacement choice for your Deluxe Reverb. IIRC they run around forty to fifty bucks on Ebay. I know it's crap having to spend that kind of money (or any, for that matter) on a brand-new amp but 'tis the sad state of affairs in which we find ourselves today. Your first course of action should still be letting an FMIC-authorized service center have a go at the issue. If that fails and you insist on keeping the amp, then take a look at outright replacement of the tank.

JMMOC

Arjay


Even if I'm not happy with the reverb sound, it really does sound identical to the demos I've heard now so I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. I even have the same guitar (albeit with different pickups) then the demo I'm using for comparison. Next time I'm out to Toronto where I can try another one of these, I'll give it a shot to be sure. I am planning on keeping the amp though because everything else I'm beyond happy with. It does suck to pay money on a new amp but if it's a mod rather then a fix I can justify it and it's probably less money then I was planning to spend on the Fritz mod for my DRRI anyways. I'll order that tank and post results.

Also, this forum is awesome. You're all so helpful!


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