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Post subject: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:46 am
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Greetings again,

Since I purchased my used '65 Super Reverb RI a few weeks ago, I've decided to refresh her with a new tube set. My problem again, is with all the horse crap, hype and misleading crap that all these tube brands and sellers have to offer.
My beef is this: How can MusiciansFriend advertise almost every tube they sell comes in 3 flavors of breakup - low, mid & high? Along with GrooveTubes, they are the ONLY outfit to do this that I have found.

This stems from my searching all the 'big' guys we've all patronized for decades. They don't offer this. Case in point; I like my Fender 6L6s which came with the amp. They are stamped as 6L6gc sv. I googled and could not find this model of fender tube anymore so since 'Made In Russia' was under Fender's red label, I assumed this would be a Svetlana due to the 'sv' at end of part name.

So, I called Svetlana (New Sensor) in New York and left my inquiry on a message machine. Their web site, like everybody else's website, did not indicate 3 versions of this tube. What am I missing here??I'll let you know their response when I get it. I'd like to get the same tubes as I'm enjoying the performance now with the old tubes however, it would be nice to have 'earlier breakup' as advertised by company mentioned at the beginning of this inquiry.


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:17 am
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You like the sound of your amp and you are afraid of not finding same brand of 6L6 to keep your sound !


I'm sure with any good brand you"ll love your sound . I use JJ 6L6 on my Fender amps and I'm sure other good brand will sound good too.

Don't forget , new 6L6's need a bias check .


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:26 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Don't forget , new 6L6's need a bias check .


+1

Optimizing the bias-supply voltage is the key to getting the best sound from the power tubes, regardless of brand or any nebulous rating scheme.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 4:56 am
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+1 Retroverbial


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:45 am
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bluezguy09 wrote:
...My beef is this: How can MusiciansFriend advertise almost every tube they sell comes in 3 flavors of breakup - low, mid & high? Along with GrooveTubes, they are the ONLY outfit to do this that I have found...


Most tubes have some kind of rating for current (I) and/or transconductance (Gm). All it takes is a little study to see that the higher numbers equal later breakup, and the lower numbers equal early breakup.

The real problem of understanding these numbers lies in the various ways that different vendors obtain the numbers, usually with some type of test equipment, and there are many types. The numbers from one vendor don't necessarily match the numbers from another vendor, as each might each use a different type of tester to rate their tubes.

TheTubeStore, Antique Electronic Supply, TubeDpot, Dougs Tubes, Eurotubes, and almost every tube vendor uses some type of numbering to rate their tubes. Some tubes sold by vendors already have a rating numbers on them when they receive them, such as Ruby Tubes, Groove Tubes and others.

Most tube vendors will try to accommodate you in your request for early or late breakup tubes. There can be a learning curve when switching from one brand of tubes to another.

With Groove Tubes, the numbers always match, no matter which vendor sells them. A GT "7" from Antique Electronic Supply will be the same as a GT "7" from Guitar Center and the same as a GT "7" from any other vendor. This is because GT is the only one rating the tubes that they test. GT tubes come from many different sources, and the ending letter designation indicates where the tubes are from. "-R" is Russian, from the factory that produces Sovtek and Electro Harmonix. "-S" is Slovakian, from the JJ factory. "-C" is Chinese, mostly from Shuguang factory. GT did use tubes from SED awhile back, but I believe that they no longer use them.

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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 7:24 am
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I concur with shimmilou.

Aspen Pittman, founder of Groove Tubes, used to publish a book entitled "The Tube Amp Book." I owned one years ago and it has since been lost due to a number of moves to different locations. A couple of years ago I looked and he was still publishing it, but it had become a bit spendy for a paperback. It is an excellent treatise on vacuum tubes in general, containing copies of original factory tech specs on many tubes. It also had/has schematics on all the great, classic amps. And as I recall, there is a bit of basic tube theory.

If you can find a copy of "The Tube Amp Book," and you are REALLY curious to learn more about vacuum tubes, it will be worth the bucks!


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:10 am
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Lynn Nicholson wrote:
I concur with shimmilou.

Aspen Pittman, founder of Groove Tubes, used to publish a book entitled "The Tube Amp Book." I owned one years ago and it has since been lost due to a number of moves to different locations. A couple of years ago I looked and he was still publishing it, but it had become a bit spendy for a paperback. It is an excellent treatise on vacuum tubes in general, containing copies of original factory tech specs on many tubes. It also had/has schematics on all the great, classic amps. And as I recall, there is a bit of basic tube theory.

If you can find a copy of "The Tube Amp Book," and you are REALLY curious to learn more about vacuum tubes, it will be worth the bucks!



Bit spendy at $31....!!!

IMO it is a great deal

http://www.amazon.com/Tube-Amp-Book-Rev ... s+amp+book


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:29 am
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AS ALWAYS - Thank you much you guys for your inputs!
New Sensor replied to me in less than 24 hours and here it is:

"Hello. Tubes do come in a variety of sensitivities. If you wanted a set that was very clean sounding you would get a hi break up set. If you wanted distortion than a early break up. The terms that Musiciansfriend is using are not standard but they are correct. They can order the tubes from us with different specs.
Regards,
"


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:51 pm
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New Sensor is the American distributor of most of my favorite tubes, made in Russia at the Xpo-pul (Reflector) factories. Their brands include EH, Sovtek, Mullard RI, Tung Sol RI, Svetlana (newly acquired name), and others. GT uses tubes from this same Russian factory, the majority of GT tubes are from there.

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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:07 pm
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... And Fender now owns Groove Tubes, so it's not surprising they would adopt their rating system.


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:21 pm
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Here's the list of sources of Groove Tube labeled tubes.


http://www.thetubestore.com/Tubes/Groove-Tubes


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Post subject: Re: Tubes and Marketing = Confusion
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:25 pm
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That is a pretty good list, and TheTubeStore is a great supplier with great customer service. TheTubeStore doesn't sell GT tubes, and they are just a tad misleading about GT tubes.

This statement, "All of these companies simply re-label tubes from the same factories we buy from....", is misleading, as there is much more to it that "simply relabeling". GT, MB, Ruby, and others, test the tubes, reject over half of what the manufacturers sell, rate the ones that pass the tests, and only then relabel them.

Some GT tubes are not "relabeled" at all, they are specifically made for GT by the factories that make other similar tubes. For example, the tubes made at the JJ factory are not labeled as JJ to begin with, they are made specifically for GT. The GE reissue tubes are made specifically for GT, and you can't even get the same tubes labeled any other way.

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Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


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