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Post subject: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:14 am
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Hey all, Got a whole array of things going on here.. I took it upon myself to try and learn to work on my amp because i cant afford to pay other people to do it (College, broke), and some things have come up that i was hoping for some help with.

1. I installed the fromel supreme mod kit, with the exception of the brightness and volume mods, and upon reassembling the amp, i found that the drive knob no longer has any affect at all. Also once the amp is put into the Lead channel no sound comes out from the amp, and same thing with the More Drive function, the LED changes correctly but absolutely no sound comes through. So i was just using the Clean channel.

2. Then I Installed a new set of tubes, JJ 6v6s (and rebiased accordingly) and then a JJ ECC83S in V1 and V3 and ECC832 in V2, also installed a tonetubby 40/40 8ohm speaker. The problem now is that i cant get the thing past bedroom audible even with volume maxed and guitar volume maxed. When i switched back to the GT 6L6's, thinking it was the tubes, (and rebiased) i saw no increase in volume, so i'm really not sure what the culprit could be.

I know this leaves many many options for things that could have went wrong, but i was hoping someone could help me break this down, as i think i have done enough on my own.

Any info would be greatly greatly appreciated.. God Bless


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:17 pm
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You learn how to work in amp by beginning to mod a HR Deluxe !!!!

Hard to work this amp 'cause circuit printed , pots to chassis and printed circuit board .Wire dress is very critical too... :(

I hope someone can help you .

Any schematic of your work or the kit ?

Look your work carefully , something is broken or bad solder or wrong part at wrong place .
Without seeing amp ......


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:34 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
Any schematic of your work or the kit ?


not sure how to do that. I could list all the things that were changed with the Mod Kit if that helps narrow it down.

Also there was something that seemed fishy but idk what to do about it... part of the mod was to remove the master volume pot and replace it with another.. spent a good deal of time trying to remove solder from the pins underneath and was having poor luck. I thought maybe i could put the legs through while the solder was hot and bent the legs up a good bit.. realized that wasn't going to work though and attempted to rebend them and stick them back in hole they came from and then just applied more solder.. not sure how to tell if i damaged a solder joint or not..

Also what does blackish goldish residue by solder joints mean.. i see it on some of the pins...


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:43 pm
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Any picture of your work ? The printed circuit , both side .

You may have done some mistake and broke some circuit ? How can we help you if we can't see the amp ?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:36 pm
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alexmurphy6194, why not contact Fromel Electronics, since the amp was fine and the modifications seem to be the problem?

For customer service or questions about orders, custom shop, or anything regarding Fromel Electronics or Leading Tone please contact:

info@leadingtoneseattle.com


Here's a description of what the mods are supposed to accomplish (from the Fromel Electronics website):

Included in the kit is all the components necessary to to get your amp in top shape and the detailed instructions to make the changes easy.

Tone Stack - Get rid of that farty bottom, honky mids, and lack of clarity. High Quality Sprague Orange Drop Caps with corrected values for the Bass and Mid Cap and corrected value for the $@!&# resistor. What about the Treble cap? replace the cheap ceramic cap with a high quality Silver Mica cap. The result is an amp that sounds huge and warm with nice top end sparkle, not dark and buried in the mix.

Twin Mod - Fix the mids on the amp and get rid of that flabby bottom. This mod enables you to take all the mids out of the tone allowing more flexibility and versatility. This is accomplished with just a short jumper wire but the result is far better control of your tone.

Brightness - Like to play at low volumes but find the amp too dark? The brightness mod adds sparkle to your tone at low volumes. As you turn your amp up the brightness mod loses its effect so the amp never sounds brittle at high volumes.

Power Stiffening - Doubles the capacitance in the first filter stage, this reduces hum and increases reserve power for solid bass and better transience for incisive picking, This mod gives the amp the extra torque it needs to push through strong when you are playing hard. This also takes some stress off the output transformer increasing its life span.

Lead Master Volume - Ever wonder why this amp gets extremely loud after you turn it up past 2. Fender uses a linear taper pot for the Master Volume when it should be an audio taper. This mod gives you usable control of the drive channel so you can get good tone without playing at stadium volume.

Power Resistors- Many problems with the Hot Rod Deluxe, especially the older ones are from the power resistors that control switching. Two new power resistors installed properly will avoid many problems down the road.

Plate Load Resistors - Replace all the plate load resistors with 5% 1/2 Carbon Comp resistors. This amp can develop a loud crackle/static that is caused by the plate load resistors. This mod fixes or prevents this problem and using the same carbon comp resistors found in vintage and boutique amps you add rich harmonic overtones.

Reverb Mod - Why does the reverb in this amp become a complete wash after turning it up past 3 especially at low volumes? This mod makes the reverb more controllable, fuller, and more natural. This is an easy mod that is nothing more than clipping one wire but the result is amazing.

Switchcraft Input Jack - Your input jacks are soldered directly to the circuit board, apply some tension when the amp is plugged in and you could cause major damage to the circuit board in the amp. This mod gets rid of the wimpy plastic input jacks and replaces them with high quality metal switchcraft jacks that are panel mounted and NOT directly soldered to the circuit board. Included is a shoulder washer and isolation washer so the input jacks do not ground directly to the chassis and prevents ground loops. The jacks come pre-wired with high quality, Teflon Coated, Silver Plated Solid Copper Core wire. The solder I use is Silver bearing. This is the same quality you will find in high end boutique amplifiers costing thousands of dollars. Newer Hot Rod Deluxe amps have a better quality Neutrik input jack which are better than the older amps but they are still attached directly to the PCB.

Proper Lead Dress - Take a look inside a boutique tube amp and you will see all the wires carefully twisted and placed for greatest reduction in oscillation and noise. The Hot Rod Deluxe has all the internal wires zip tied together. I give clear instructions on dressing the leads inside the amp for optimal performance, this results in lower noise and less chance for oscillation.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:52 pm
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strings10927 wrote:
alexmurphy6194, why not contact Fromel Electronics, since the amp was fine and the modifications seem to be the problem?




The mod / parts is the problem or it is the work ?

There is no waranty from Fromel Electronics. Blue color is from me


Your instructions were clear and concise, and the results spectacular. Bravo on a wonderful product
WARNING: Performing these modifications WILL void the warranty on your amplifier. Working on amps can be deadly if you do not take proper precautions. Follow these instructions very carefully. If you are at all unsure of your ability to perform these modifications STOP and take your amp to a professional to be modified. You can also send your amp to me for modification.

No Warranty: This kit and the instructions included do not include any warranty of any kind. The modifications to your amplifier are at your own risk and you agree to completely hold harmless the seller of this kit against any and all claims. Tube amplifiers contain parts that operate at very high temperatures and deadly voltages. If you are not sure of your abilities to perform these modifications then do not perform them.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:47 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
Any picture of your work ? The printed circuit , both side .

You may have done some mistake and broke some circuit ? How can we help you if we can't see the amp ?


You might find these tools handy as well, Stratele......

Image

It sounds like a real mess to me!

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:34 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:

You might find these tools handy as well, Stratele......

Image

It sounds like a real mess to me!



Arjay


+1 :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:18 pm
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This is the reason why I do NOT believe in doing mods to an amp outside of trying different brand tubes or maybe a speaker upgrade at most. That amp was probably just fine until you started screwing around with it by modifying it,and possibly have no electronics experience outside of just replacing tubes(I don't know,...maybe you do,...maybe you don't). I've said this before,I'll say it again,and I will KEEP ON saying it because I SWEAR by it,...I will NOT EVER even consider using a tube type other than what an amp calls for. That Hot Rod amp calls for 6L6s in the power section,...NOT 6V6s! I know some are going to disagree with me and that is your God given right to do so,...but I myself am a very strict purist and will only use the tube type(s)my amps call for. Okay,...I can understand if you're in school and all and are on a very limited budget so to speak,but if you don't have the funds to have the amp properly serviced by an amp tech that knows what the hell they are doing,leave the damn thing alone until you DO have the money and can get it to an amp tech. I know some about reading a schematic,and I too would like to see photos in order to be of at least SOME assistance. Damn people! :roll: :roll:

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If it aint' broke,...don't fix it! I like to keep my amps and guitars factory original,...no mods necessary,...don't want them,...don't need them!

My gear as of now;
Standard Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe III amp
Champion 20 amp
'59 Bassman LTD Reissue


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:29 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:

You might find these tools handy as well, Stratele......

Image

It sounds like a real mess to me!



Arjay


+1 :lol:


Yep,...a REAL mess! +1 all the way!

_________________
If it aint' broke,...don't fix it! I like to keep my amps and guitars factory original,...no mods necessary,...don't want them,...don't need them!

My gear as of now;
Standard Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe III amp
Champion 20 amp
'59 Bassman LTD Reissue


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:20 pm
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stratele52 wrote:
strings10927 wrote:
alexmurphy6194, why not contact Fromel Electronics, since the amp was fine and the modifications seem to be the problem?




The mod / parts is the problem or it is the work ?

There is no waranty from Fromel Electronics. Blue color is from me


Your instructions were clear and concise, and the results spectacular. Bravo on a wonderful product
WARNING: Performing these modifications WILL void the warranty on your amplifier. Working on amps can be deadly if you do not take proper precautions. Follow these instructions very carefully. If you are at all unsure of your ability to perform these modifications STOP and take your amp to a professional to be modified. You can also send your amp to me for modification.

No Warranty: This kit and the instructions included do not include any warranty of any kind. The modifications to your amplifier are at your own risk and you agree to completely hold harmless the seller of this kit against any and all claims. Tube amplifiers contain parts that operate at very high temperatures and deadly voltages. If you are not sure of your abilities to perform these modifications then do not perform them.

Right, I didn't mean to imply the instructions were faulty, just the execution. I saw the bit about the warranty (or lack of) but even still, they may be able to provide some phone support to help out a customer in need. Doesn't hurt to ask.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:24 pm
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Well now that it's been re established that it's a hot mess, how about some direction.

If a fender hot rod deluxe lead channel is not working what would you check.

Is there a way to pin point where the problems lies by checking continuity of all the resistors and what not? if so how is that accomplished.

I have no camera. No iphone. Nothing that will give a good enough picture I am afraid.

And if you never take an amp apart how would you ever learn to work on it. Sure it's in disrepair now but it's not permanent. Im not stressed. If you all have ideas great if not cool

thanks


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:02 pm
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just hit up fromel customer service so we'll see what they have to say.

On a positive note, my volume issue has been resolved! The speaker was plugged into the ext. speaker input rather than the internal. Changing that seems to have cured that whole ailment for now.

Another update however, just tried switching to the Lead channel once more to see what would happen and it emitted a super loud scream nearly scared the life outta me it was so loud, and i just quickly hit the button again...

Not sure if that helps pin point anything but things are moving thats for sure!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:51 pm
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Master and Drive knobs turned down? The Volume is only for the clean channel, the other two for the drive channel. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Hot Rod Deluxe - Smorgasbord
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:57 am
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alexmurphy6194 wrote:
Well now that it's been re established that it's a hot mess, how about some direction.

If a fender hot rod deluxe lead channel is not working what would you check.

Is there a way to pin point where the problems lies by checking continuity of all the resistors and what not? if so how is that accomplished.

I have no camera. No iphone. Nothing that will give a good enough picture I am afraid.
No friend with camera in 2014 ?

And if you never take an amp apart how would you ever learn to work on it.

Sure you don't know , but it is one of the hardiest amp to work on , not a amp to learn with . You have to learn on point to point amp or very small amp if printed circuit

Sure it's in disrepair now but it's not permanent. Im not stressed. If you all have ideas great if not cool

thanks



I will remove all of the mod and try to rewire the amp original .


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