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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:06 pm
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spaceape wrote:
Why don't you keep it in the family and get something like a Fender Super Reverb? Unless the other guy is cranking the Twin up to 8-11 the Super should be able to hang while offering a complimentary, but slightly different tone.

Also, I agree with you on the tube business. If you have decided that's what sounds good to you, you won't be happy with some digital madness or solid-state trash. It's cheaper in the long run to go ahead and buy the amp you want now, rather than settle for something you'll want to upgrade in a year or too. You'll have a better amp right now but most importantly, you'll be happy.

...solid state trash?

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 4:45 pm
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mhowell wrote:
spaceape wrote:
Why don't you keep it in the family and get something like a Fender Super Reverb? Unless the other guy is cranking the Twin up to 8-11 the Super should be able to hang while offering a complimentary, but slightly different tone.

Also, I agree with you on the tube business. If you have decided that's what sounds good to you, you won't be happy with some digital madness or solid-state trash. It's cheaper in the long run to go ahead and buy the amp you want now, rather than settle for something you'll want to upgrade in a year or too. You'll have a better amp right now but most importantly, you'll be happy.

...solid state trash?


He's sure on a roll, isn't he?

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Fri May 16, 2014 7:25 pm
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mhowell wrote:
spaceape wrote:
Why don't you keep it in the family and get something like a Fender Super Reverb? Unless the other guy is cranking the Twin up to 8-11 the Super should be able to hang while offering a complimentary, but slightly different tone.

Also, I agree with you on the tube business. If you have decided that's what sounds good to you, you won't be happy with some digital madness or solid-state trash. It's cheaper in the long run to go ahead and buy the amp you want now, rather than settle for something you'll want to upgrade in a year or too. You'll have a better amp right now but most importantly, you'll be happy.

...solid state trash?


solid state trash my friend. Step into the light.


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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 3:41 pm
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spaceape wrote:
mhowell wrote:
spaceape wrote:
Why don't you keep it in the family and get something like a Fender Super Reverb? Unless the other guy is cranking the Twin up to 8-11 the Super should be able to hang while offering a complimentary, but slightly different tone.

Also, I agree with you on the tube business. If you have decided that's what sounds good to you, you won't be happy with some digital madness or solid-state trash. It's cheaper in the long run to go ahead and buy the amp you want now, rather than settle for something you'll want to upgrade in a year or too. You'll have a better amp right now but most importantly, you'll be happy.

...solid state trash?


solid state trash my friend. Step into the light.

Don't misunderstand me. I like tube amps. I just have a hard time justifying the expense versus a good quality solid state amp. To act like an amp is trash solely because it is solid state is silly.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:01 pm
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mhowell wrote:
spaceape wrote:
solid state trash my friend. Step into the light.

Don't misunderstand me. I like tube amps. I just have a hard time justifying the expense versus a good quality solid state amp. To act like an amp is trash solely because it is solid state is silly.


Ask him to explain how a person or company that sells only the products of one other company is a shill for that company. Its hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:02 pm
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Some phenominal solid state amps:

http://www.quilterlabs.com/

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:35 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Some phenominal solid state amps:

http://www.quilterlabs.com/

Quilters are so expensive they've negated my main motivation to go from tube to SS. Pritchard amps have the same problem.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 4:45 pm
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mhowell wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Some phenominal solid state amps:

http://www.quilterlabs.com/

Quilters are so expensive they've negated my main motivation to go from tube to SS. Pritchard amps have the same problem.


Good amp tone from solid state (and I don't mean cheesy modeling effects) costs money.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:13 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Some phenominal solid state amps:

http://www.quilterlabs.com/

Quilters are so expensive they've negated my main motivation to go from tube to SS. Pritchard amps have the same problem.


Good amp tone from solid state (and I don't mean cheesy modeling effects) costs money.

Agreed, quality is never cheap, but I don't think they have to approach, and then surpass, the price of a good tube amp.

Not sure what is cheesy about modeling. A mustang I amp is cheesy, but it's cheesy because of the cheap construction and wimpy speaker. The modeling is excellent, at least in my non-professional opinion.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 5:36 pm
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mhowell wrote:
Agreed, quality is never cheap, but I don't think they have to approach, and then surpass, the price of a good tube amp.

Not sure what is cheesy about modeling. A mustang I amp is cheesy, but it's cheesy because of the cheap construction and wimpy speaker. The modeling is excellent, at least in my non-professional opinion.


Solid state devices break up differently than tubes. Since "tube tone" is the overwhelming choice of most guitarists, it takes additional circuitry to get a solid state device to sound like a tube.

Regarding modeling, once you get into the realm of things like AxeFX and similar devices, you begin to approach the sound of the modeled amp (notice I didn't say "achieve"). In any case, I have yet to hear any modeling amp sound exactly like the amp it is supposed to emulate.

As far as modeling and solid state go, have you ever seen a modeling amp with a solid state amp model? Other than the basic amp sound, I haven't.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:17 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
As far as modeling and solid state go, have you ever seen a modeling amp with a solid state amp model? Other than the basic amp sound, I haven't.


+1

Perhaps the next-generation technology will break through the "vacuum tube" ceiling......

But I'm not holding my breath.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 6:51 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
mhowell wrote:
Agreed, quality is never cheap, but I don't think they have to approach, and then surpass, the price of a good tube amp.

Not sure what is cheesy about modeling. A mustang I amp is cheesy, but it's cheesy because of the cheap construction and wimpy speaker. The modeling is excellent, at least in my non-professional opinion.


Solid state devices break up differently than tubes. Since "tube tone" is the overwhelming choice of most guitarists, it takes additional circuitry to get a solid state device to sound like a tube.

Regarding modeling, once you get into the realm of things like AxeFX and similar devices, you begin to approach the sound of the modeled amp (notice I didn't say "achieve"). In any case, I have yet to hear any modeling amp sound exactly like the amp it is supposed to emulate.

As far as modeling and solid state go, have you ever seen a modeling amp with a solid state amp model? Other than the basic amp sound, I haven't.


Which solid state devices breakup differently from which tubes and why does that matter? I suspect the small signal models are identical (spherical chickens come home to roost). What is "tube tone"? Vox, Fender, Peavey? 1x12, 4x10, 2x12? Open back, closed? Eminence, Jensen, Celestion? Which one?

It also takes additional tube circuitry to get a solid state sound. So what?

Roland vg-99 system has a JC120 model. I've not checked it out but I'm sure it only 'approaches' the real thing.

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:03 pm
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:roll: :roll: :roll:

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 7:05 pm
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mhowell wrote:
Which solid state devices breakup differently from which tubes and why does that matter? I suspect the small signal models are identical (spherical chickens come home to roost). What is "tube tone"? Vox, Fender, Peavey? 1x12, 4x10, 2x12? Open back, closed? Eminence, Jensen, Celestion? Which one?

It also takes additional tube circuitry to get a solid state sound. So what?

Roland vg-99 system has a JC120 model. I've not checked it out but I'm sure it only 'approaches' the real thing.


Do some research. Believe what you like.

http://www.gmarts.org/index.php?go=214

http://psg.com/~dlamkins/lamkins-guitar ... -mythology

http://www.trueaudio.com/at_eetjlm.htm

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Post subject: Re: Amp Suggestions
Posted: Sun May 18, 2014 8:04 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:


Do some research? You think I'm pulling stuff off the wall? I've done research.

Here is an example.
Image
Your first two links made the long dis proven assertion about hard vs soft clipping. We can plainly see that tube amps are quite capable of hard clipping. It is also relatively easy to get SS to produce soft clipping?

The third link was a good source in 1994. Seriously? You don't think modeling has gotten any better in the last 20 years?

I really didn't intend to launch a debate that I'm not really qualified to pursue. I am not a professional musician so please take anything (everything?) I say with a grain of salt. I have also never stated that modeling or any other type of SS is better, or worse, than tubes. I have said that for me, as a non professional, I cannot justify the expense of a tube amp over a good SS amp because I honestly do not hear any significant difference.

I try to hear the difference. I really do. I thought I heard it once but Arjay said, "No. That's not it".

I respect you very much bluesky so please take the last word.

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