It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:07 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:54 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 95
Location: West Virginia
Hello,
The amp:
1997 Hotrod DeVille
The problem:
My venue has changed (for the nonce) and my amp is too loud for the environment on any setting greater than 1.5 on the volume dial.
The goal:
I'd like to reduce the output by 50 - 70% without adversely affecting reliability. And I would prefer not to have to alter bias settings.

Since this amp does not have EQ in the drive channel, I rarely (pretty much never) use the drive or more drive functions, preferring to use stomp boxes instead.
So I'm thinking that simply installing a 5751 in V1 will do the trick.

The questions:
Should I install 5751's in all three preamp spots for balance?
Would 12AT7's be a better choice in V1 (or V1, V2, or all three)?
Does reducing the preamp tubes output adversely affect the output tubes?

Lastly - what is the preferred brand of modern jars here? While NOS would no doubt be nice, $50.00 dollars or more per tube is a bit much to spend to try to make a hack such as myself sound better! ;)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:58 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
wrvond wrote:
Hello,
The amp:
1997 Hotrod DeVille
The problem:
My venue has changed (for the nonce) and my amp is too loud for the environment on any setting greater than 1.5 on the volume dial.

Sorry only a speaker attenuator will do the job

The goal:
I'd like to reduce the output by 50 - 70% without adversely affecting reliability. And I would prefer not to have to alter bias settings.

See first answer . Bias had nothing to do with output power

Since this amp does not have EQ in the drive channel, I rarely (pretty much never) use the drive or more drive functions, preferring to use stomp boxes instead.
So I'm thinking that simply installing a 5751 in V1 will do the trick.

The questions:
Should I install 5751's in all three preamp spots for balance?
Would 12AT7's be a better choice in V1 (or V1, V2, or all three)?
Does reducing the preamp tubes output adversely affect the output tubes?

Some 12XX7 tubes could change gain and little bit of output power ( not what you look for ) but it could change your tone

Lastly - what is the preferred brand of modern jars here? While NOS would no doubt be nice, $50.00 dollars or more per tube is a bit much to spend to try to make a hack such as myself sound better! ;)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:02 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
stratele52 wrote:
wrvond wrote:
Hello,
The amp:
1997 Hotrod DeVille
The problem:
My venue has changed (for the nonce) and my amp is too loud for the environment on any setting greater than 1.5 on the volume dial.

Sorry only a speaker attenuator will do the job

The goal:
I'd like to reduce the output by 50 - 70% without adversely affecting reliability. And I would prefer not to have to alter bias settings.

See first answer . Bias had nothing to do with output power

Since this amp does not have EQ in the drive channel, I rarely (pretty much never) use the drive or more drive functions, preferring to use stomp boxes instead.
So I'm thinking that simply installing a 5751 in V1 will do the trick.

The questions:
Should I install 5751's in all three preamp spots for balance?
Would 12AT7's be a better choice in V1 (or V1, V2, or all three)?
Does reducing the preamp tubes output adversely affect the output tubes?

Some 12XX7 tubes could change gain and little bit of output power ( not what you look for ) but it could change your tone

Lastly - what is the preferred brand of modern jars here? While NOS would no doubt be nice, $50.00 dollars or more per tube is a bit much to spend to try to make a hack such as myself sound better! ;)

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and suggestions.


+1 to my friend Stratele's comments.

I'd only add that I don't think a 12AT7 should be used anywhere in the pre-amp. This tube draws significantly more current than a 12AX7 and all of the other compatible dual-triodes. If anything, give a 12AY7 a try. That tube has about 30% less gain than a 12AX7 and may provide *some* of the attributes you seek.

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:03 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Retroverbial wrote:

I'd only add that I don't think a 12AT7 should be used anywhere in the pre-amp. This tube draws significantly more current than a 12AX7 and all of the other compatible dual-triodes. If anything, give a 12AY7 a try. That tube has about 30% less gain than a 12AX7 and may provide *some* of the attributes you seek.



+1000 great advise


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:21 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Whoever said the Drive/More Drive channel doesn't have EQ is an idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:

+1 for everything Stratele52 and Arjay said.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:46 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Some good suggestions here. I would put a 12AT7 in the PI (V3), a 5751 or 12AY7 in V1, and maybe a 5751 or 12AY7 in V2. I prefer a GE 5751, or a JJ 5751 is good also, and for a 12AY7 I like EH. Something else to consider, try some 6V6 for output tubes to reduce the overall amp output power to less than half. Only certain 6V6 types can be used in this amp, specifically those that are designed for the high Plate voltage in this amp. Namely, a JJ 6V6 S, or GT 6V6 S (only the GT S version) can be used, without a huge change in the amp tone, while greatly reducing output power. These particular 6V6 are closer to a 6L6 than a traditional 6V6 in sound. Of course if you change the output tubes you will have to adjust the bias accordingly.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:45 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Shimmilou ,

Not sure of that but using 6V6 on amp desing for 6L6 may won't work . The amp need to deliver lots of power , 6V6 can't hold that .

You can use 6L6 on amp desing for 6V6 , sound will be more clean ,


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:49 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:50 am
Posts: 1399
I have a 5751 in VI and 5881 tubes for power because they have a lower power rating. Roughly a 25% decrease in output power. Not to mention, TS 5881's have a really good guitar tone. My volume has decreased enough for me to enjoy it.

_________________
I have some Fender gear.
(Telecaster, Jaguar, Villager 12 String. Mustang l, Bronco, SCX2, Rumble 350, HRDIII, Rumble 2x8 Neo Cab)
http://www.reverbnation.com/modwiz


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:05 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
modwiz wrote:
I have a 5751 in VI and 5881 tubes for power because they have a lower power rating. Roughly a 25% decrease in output power. Not to mention, TS 5881's have a really good guitar tone. My volume has decreased enough for me to enjoy it.


Almost all of the volume reduction is due to the use of the 5751 in V1. The difference in power output and thus overall maximum value between a 30 watt 6L6GC and a 25 watt 5881 is negligible. Even dropping down to 15 watt 6V6 tubes will result in only about a 3 dB difference in power (about 22 watts vs 40 watts) which will provide a noticeable but not significant reduction in volume. My experiments with both EH 6V6GTs and JJ 6V6S tubse in my BDRI resulted in an amp damn near as loud as with the JJ 6L6GCs at maximum volume accompanied by a rather flabby, and gritty bass. Not a good tone in my opinion.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:16 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 95
Location: West Virginia
bluesky636 wrote:
Whoever said the Drive/More Drive channel doesn't have EQ is an idiot. :lol: :lol: :lol:

+1 for everything Stratele52 and Arjay said.



What I should have said was that the Drive/More Drive channels do not have their own EQ's.
If you want your drive to have a different EQ setting than the clean channel, you have to change it when you switch over. Therefor it is much easier to use a pedal with EQ than the built in channel.
Granted a mis-statement, but I don't think it makes me an idiot.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:19 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 95
Location: West Virginia
stratele52 wrote:
[<snip>
I'd like to reduce the output by 50 - 70% without adversely affecting reliability. And I would prefer not to have to alter bias settings.

See first answer . Bias had nothing to do with output power

<snip>


But changing the output tubes would require setting bias, right? Something I could do, but prefer not to mess with.


It sounds like the consensus is that a GE 5751 will give me the greatest change with the least input.
Thanks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:11 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
stratele52 wrote:
Shimmilou ,

Not sure of that but using 6V6 on amp desing for 6L6 may won't work . The amp need to deliver lots of power , 6V6 can't hold that .

You can use 6L6 on amp desing for 6V6 , sound will be more clean ,


Yes, it works quite well. Eurotubes even sells 6V6 tube sets for this amp. The JJ and GT 6V6s will handle Plate voltages of 500 volts, no problem. As stated, set the bias for the tubes.

Since the OP stated a desire to drop the output power, the 6V6 will do just that. When I tried the 6V6 in a 6L6 amp, I definitely noticed a difference on the volume dial, but never went full volume.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:46 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Shimmilou ,

If you use 6V6 you must do a big change on bias to keep these tubes in their specs ( half output maximum dissipation of 6L6) . IMO this Hot Rod Devile need a mod in bias circuit resistors and i'm not sure is there enough negative grid voltage to drive safely 6V6.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:51 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
wrvond wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
[<snip>

But changing the output tubes would require setting bias, right? Something I could do, but prefer not to mess with.

Sure if you use 6V6 , always need a bias check with any new 6L6 too

It sounds like the consensus is that a GE 5751 will give me the greatest change with the least input.

What consensus ? This preamp tube have less gain than 12AX7, but this won't reduce your output power like you want . A speaker Attenuator is the only and easiest way and it is a good invest if you want to crank your amp with a low volume .
Thanks.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Best tubes to reduce volume of my Hotrod DeVille?
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:55 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
modwiz wrote:
I have a 5751 in VI and 5881 tubes for power because they have a lower power rating. Roughly a 25% decrease in output power. Not to mention, TS 5881's have a really good guitar tone. My volume has decreased enough for me to enjoy it.



Sure not 70% to 50% lower volume as wrvond want . And it change tone of the amp , less overdrive .


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: