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Post subject: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:59 pm
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So I'm planning to get a '68 reissue deluxe, but I've never been a fan of the silverface look. Does anyone know if it's fairly easy to remove the drop edge and replace the faceplate with a blackface faceplate?

Just thought I'd ask. :)


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:14 pm
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Faceplate swaps are easy enough to one familiar with chassis hardware and how to use common hand tools.

The baffle board used for a drip-edge amp is smaller in both height and width to allow clearance at the edges for the aluminum extrusion. Thus, it's impractical to remove the molding and merely swap grill cloth since the result will be a baffle board that no longer fits the cabinet correctly.

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:54 pm
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StratLovesLenny wrote:
So I'm planning to get a '68 reissue deluxe, but I've never been a fan of the silverface look. Does anyone know if it's fairly easy to remove the drop edge and replace the faceplate with a blackface faceplate?

Just thought I'd ask. :)


I know this is a silly question & yes, they are not the same amp. But, if you like the blackface look, why not get a DRRI? Looks-wise, a lot easier solution. No?


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:03 am
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Well, I've had a DRRI in the past and have not been a fan of the sound. I've heard that the '68 reissues for Deluxes in particular are really a different animal and are a nice improvement in every category.

The DRRI has a reputation for being an amp that a lot of people want to modify once they get, more than the norm. I understand why, haha.


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:17 am
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OK. Have you tried the new '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb? I'd be interested in how its tone is versus the DRRI.


Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:10 pm
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StratLovesLenny wrote:
Well, I've had a DRRI in the past and have not been a fan of the sound. I've heard that the '68 reissues for Deluxes in particular are really a different animal and are a nice improvement in every category.

The DRRI has a reputation for being an amp that a lot of people want to modify once they get, more than the norm. I understand why, haha.


I have a feeling you'll be no more satisfied with the VM "re-issue" '68 DR than you were with a standard blackface re-issue.

I don't know who's given you the impression that the DRRI needs to be modded but frankly I think that opinion is unwarranted. Aside from some careful tube-rolling (and re-biasing the output stage), the Fritz mod, and a speaker swap I found nothing wrong with the basic platform. And thus tweaked, my DRRI's tone compares quite favorably to my '68 and '77 Deluxe Reverb's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 2:56 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
StratLovesLenny wrote:
Well, I've had a DRRI in the past and have not been a fan of the sound. I've heard that the '68 reissues for Deluxes in particular are really a different animal and are a nice improvement in every category.

The DRRI has a reputation for being an amp that a lot of people want to modify once they get, more than the norm. I understand why, haha.


I have a feeling you'll be no more satisfied with the VM "re-issue" '68 DR than you were with a standard blackface re-issue.

I don't know who's given you the impression that the DRRI needs to be modded but frankly I think that opinion is unwarranted. Aside from some careful tube-rolling (and re-biasing the output stage), the Fritz mod, and a speaker swap I found nothing wrong with the basic platform. And thus tweaked, my DRRI's tone compares quite favorably to my '68 and '77 Deluxe Reverb's.

Arjay


Well, yes I think that the DRRI needs to be modded. Respectfully, you listed three mods that you made to your DRRI in that post which is what my point basically was about.

I use a Strat and have used various low-gain to medium gain overdrive pedals (Lovepedal Kalamazoo, various TS variants, etc.) I've used my DRRI for subdued clean tones (which it does pretty well). Anything else, I've found it doesn't do as great as I imagined a clean platform to do: SRV verge-of-breakup loud cleans, overdriven, anything louder than 5 or 6 on the dial, etc. In my opinion, the amp does not take overdrive pedals well, has bass that is prone to giving out (with a broken in Weber 12F150), fizzy amp overdrive + rather harsh highs, etc. Compounded with how much material online there is if you type in "DRRI Mods" into google from forums of people who are less than satisfied by the sound, I think that saying the DRRI needs mods to sound good is very warranted. Albeit, if you type any "<amp name> mods" into google, a plethora of pages pop up. However, the DRRI seems to have a lot of people dissatisfied with the sound looking to make it good rather than having a great sound trying to make it better.

It really comes down to one decision: I'd like to just deal with modding the faceplate and the drip edge and have an amp that already sounds good vs. adjusting tone-related issues in a search for a sound and handling of pedals that I'm not sure the DRRI can provide.


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:14 pm
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StratLovesLenny wrote:
Well, yes I think that the DRRI needs to be modded. Respectfully, you listed three mods that you made to your DRRI in that post which is what my point basically was about.

It really comes down to one choice: I'd like to just deal with modding the faceplate and the drip edge and have an amp that already sounds good vs. adjusting tone-related issues in a search for a sound and handling of pedals that I'm not sure the DRRI can provide.


1. Biasing the power tubes is not a mod. It is a necessary part of getting the best tone out of an amp. As Fender is notorious for biasing their ampp too cold, I will be willing to bet the the 68 Custom will also require proper biasing.

2. the Fritz mod is not a necessary mod. It is a mod for those looking for a specific tone, i.e., using reverb on both channels and having the ability to jumper channels. if you are happy with the current tone, the mod is unnecessary.

3. Swapping speakers is a common mod for any Fender amp. The speakers Fender uses (except in FSR amps) are usually low grade speakers built to a price point. The 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb uses a Celestion® G12V-70 speaker. No what I would consider a top line speaker. You might like the tone, you might not.

4. Finally, as Arjay pointed out, you will need to build a new baffle board to completely replace the stock one. In my opinion, that is more of a mod than anything else discussed.

So have you actually played the 68 Custom Deluxe or are you basing your decision purely on Internet advice?

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:33 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
StratLovesLenny wrote:
Well, yes I think that the DRRI needs to be modded. Respectfully, you listed three mods that you made to your DRRI in that post which is what my point basically was about.

It really comes down to one choice: I'd like to just deal with modding the faceplate and the drip edge and have an amp that already sounds good vs. adjusting tone-related issues in a search for a sound and handling of pedals that I'm not sure the DRRI can provide.


1. Biasing the power tubes is not a mod. It is a necessary part of getting the best tone out of an amp. As Fender is notorious for biasing their ampp too cold, I will be willing to bet the the 68 Custom will also require proper biasing.

2. the Fritz mod is not a necessary mod. It is a mod for those looking for a specific tone, i.e., using reverb on both channels and having the ability to jumper channels. if you are happy with the current tone, the mod is unnecessary.

3. Swapping speakers is a common mod for any Fender amp. The speakers Fender uses (except in FSR amps) are usually low grade speakers built to a price point. The 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb uses a Celestion® G12V-70 speaker. No what I would consider a top line speaker. You might like the tone, you might not.

4. Finally, as Arjay pointed out, you will need to build a new baffle board to completely replace the stock one. In my opinion, that is more of a mod than anything else discussed.

So have you actually played the 68 Custom Deluxe or are you basing your decision purely on Internet advice?


+1000

I also neglected to mention that I re-capped my DRRI with new Sprague's, purely as a prophylactic measure since the cheepass IC electrolytics that come stock in all Fender amps aren't worth the rubber surgical tubing needed to sling them back to Taiwan or wherever the hell they come from with my Wrist Rocket. But my operational requirements as a professional musician are a lot more stringent than a bedroom noodler or some shoe-gazer playing in his garage.

Good, consistent, reliable amp performance requires commitment to the effort -- some are willing to work at it, many are not.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 3:48 pm
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I'm basing my post on playing both a DRRI and a '68 Reissue. I tried a '68 reissue with a couple pedals and it seemed to take it better than the DRRI, and overall had a nicer feel and tone in every way to the DRRI to my ear, and I'm sure many may disagree.

Sorry, I'm mis-using the term mod. It's just spending the effort doing things to the amp, really. I would rather spend less time making an amp sound the way I want rather than more time making an amp sound the way I want (I think this is the case for most players aside from some amp aficionados that like the tweaking). If the end results satisfy me equally, I'll go with the "less time" option. Those things, mods or not, take some extra time where I wouldn't have to do that with a '68 reissue, as minor as those details with the DRRI are for players. I know I'll be as satisfied with a stock '68 rather than a DRRI that I spend time adjusting in one way or another. That's about it. That's also why I'm choosing a '68 rather than a '65RI.

If I knew that the DRRI had a tone in it that was desirable and unachievable by the '68 then by all means, then I'd fall into the category of a player willing to spend the time. Since that's not the case IMO and I can get an amp already configured the way that I want in the '68, I'd rather not buy a DRRI again.

Regarding the actual topic of the thread, I'll just replace the faceplate and not the drip edge if it's that cumbersome. :) Thanks for your help everyone. Sorry if I offended anyone by my distaste for the DRRI, but I just want an amp with the fastest means to an end. That's the '68. To me, replacing a faceplate is a bit easier than rebiasing or touching anything to do with electronics/caps/etc. (emphasis on the "to me" part)


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:43 pm
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No problem and no offense taken (at least not by me). I think we'd all like to see you get the most out of whatever amp you decide on or at the least not put money on a nag that will never place at Belmont. I have not yet played one of the new VM '68s and I prolly should have mentioned that at the fore. However, I do have extensive experience with the blackface re-issues (and the originals from which they were derived). Minor tweaks to optimize the tone of any amp are no big thing -- and once done to your liking, won't need to be re-visited. If you remain interested in the VM '68 it might be best to (gawd, it pains me to say this!) pick one up from a GC where the 30-day return policy might prove very handy, then play it for a couple of weeks. If it doesn't whistle Dixie for you, take it back within the month and resume your search.

Arjay

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Last edited by Retroverbial on Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:55 pm
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StratLovesLenny wrote:
To me, replacing a faceplate is a bit easier than rebiasing or touching anything to do with electronics/caps/etc. (emphasis on the "to me" part)


Perhaps I wasn't clear. Checking, and if necessary, adjusting the power tube bias on a new Fender amp is not an option. It is virtually a requirement to get the best tone out of the amp. Fender sets the bias far too low in their amps, primarily to achieve max tube life. If the bias is set less than the Fender (too cold) value, you risk crossover distortion which sounds downright nasty. On the rare occasions where the bias is set too hot (been known to happen), tube life may be drastically shortened. Setting the bias properly is one of the simplest things you can do to assure good amp tone.

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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:45 am
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Love my 68 twin and the silverface look;) if you like the tone just go for it! kills my old bldx and I only have 10 loud hours on it. Takes the Bogners pedals well!


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:42 pm
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The only mod I found necessary on my '68 CDR was to lose the tone-sucking turquoise jewel light.


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Post subject: Re: Aesthetically modifying a Silverface '68 Reissue
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 4:49 pm
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t-luxe wrote:
The only mod I found necessary on my '68 CDR was to lose the tone-sucking turquoise jewel light.


The violet jewel provides an extra ten watts to the speaker.

:wink:

Arjay

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