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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:16 pm
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You might want to consider reading up on amp design. Here are some good sources:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=86717

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:03 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
Yeah, I got that answer from someone else on another forum who is an amp builder :( So I'll just try the tubes and whatever else I can easily do for now, and go from there. I'll have to go through your entire thread when I have time and read up more. It's SOO long and there is so much info to to sift through.

And I know that the Bassman is the original amp that Marshall sort of "borrowed" from. And I know my HR DeVille 4x10 is "supposed" to be like a Bassman, but in my limited experience with both amps, and a Marshall, I don't really hear any similarities. The Bassman is much warmer, richer, less bright, darker in a good way, more mids then my amp. And a Marshall JCM800 which is a pretty good example of a Marshall sounds almost nothing like my amp. I'm not sure what you are referring to, but would love to learn more and hear how they might have similar "tone stacks."

I do not know how to read a schematic diagram as of right now, but would love to learn and love to be able to make my own amp someday! So knowing that, what are some good amps I could consider to be able to mod and work on, knowing what you know about what I want out of an amp as far as tone. I'd want something in the 2x10, 2x12, 3x10, 4x10, etc, 500-900 used, and power in the 25-60 watt range. I think I want to find something that already sounds more like what I'm looking for, is easy to mod, and then work on that and see how it goes. Maybe down the road build my own amp from scratch! That would be amazing and super rewarding. Plus I'd have an amp that sounds incredible and more or less exactly like what I want.

And I will definitely ask more questions as they come up. I appreciate your time and info, it is much appreciated
Thanks

Best


Tone stack mods are covered in detail in my thread.

The only amps that are simple to mod are simple amps. Like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=63259

In my estimation, you are not ready to tackle anything like what you list. Learning to read a schematic and wiring diagram is mandatory before you even think about working on an amp.

There are several build threads here in this forum including these two of mine:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65668

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=83741&p=945479#p945479




Yup, so it seems I'm going to have to read through all the pages to get the idea. I was hoping you could just inform me of those instead of having to wade through the tons of comments and other stuff, but no matter. I have bookmarked all the pages you have listed for your HR Deluxe, and these two other builds you did including the Trainwreck build! I'll go through them when I have time and read them in detail. I just hate having to wade through all the comments and TONS of stuff that has nothing to do with the actual build or the info I need. I just want to read what you did in a concise article. But I guess that's not possible. This is a forum, not a periodical. Thanks for listing your other builds.

As far as me not being ready to tackle anything like I want, I'm not sure how you can make such a claim. As of right now, you would be correct. But if I read up on amp building, learn the hows and whys, I'm not sure how you can say I CAN'T do it. Like I said, I have great learning ability, when I put my mind to something I'm interested in, I digest LARGE amounts of info very quickly and want more, and I have good building skills. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like there are just a bunch parts, that need to be put together and soldered together in a certain way, and then you have an amp? It "seems" as if you have the schematic that someone else has already figured out by putting in tons of time and work, then more or less anyone can follow the directions and put it together and have it work, yes, no? I don't know, that is what it seems like. If I'm way off base, please correct me and steer me in the right direction.

I'd love it if you had suggestions for books or websites I could go to where I can learn HOW to build my own amp and understand how changing different aspects can shape the tone/sound of the amp. I'm REALLY intrigued by the ability to be able to build my own amp that sounds amazing for WAY less then it would cost someone else to do it for me. As I said, as of right now, I'm a beginner and have rudimentary ideas about how the amps work and why certain things do this or that. But as with anything, learning and practicing is how you get better at anything, it isn't some innate ability you are born with or not, like some magical power to know how to build amps or not. If I can read and follow directions, I'm sure anyone, including myself, can build an amp. Now as far as modding it to sound a very specific way, I'm sure that takes years and years of knowledge, experience, and practice to achieve. But I'm not interested in that as of right now. I just want to learn how and why amps work, and how I can build one based off of other popular or amazing sounding schematics that some other genius has figured out. If you would be so kind as to list any and all references you have on this topic, I would greatly appreciate that. Like I said, I want to learn. I want to build. I want to feel the satisfaction of building my own amp that I can play on. That would be amazing, and give me a lifetime of fun.

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:44 pm
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jollygreen68 wrote:
Yup, so it seems I'm going to have to read through all the pages to get the idea. I was hoping you could just inform me of those instead of having to wade through the tons of comments and other stuff, but no matter. I have bookmarked all the pages you have listed for your HR Deluxe, and these two other builds you did including the Trainwreck build! I'll go through them when I have time and read them in detail. I just hate having to wade through all the comments and TONS of stuff that has nothing to do with the actual build or the info I need. I just want to read what you did in a concise article. But I guess that's not possible. This is a forum, not a periodical. Thanks for listing your other builds.


And I hate repeating everything that I have already written. I spent a lot of time and effort on that thread. Every topic is clearly identified within it. If you have a specific question that isn't already covered, I will be happy to answer it.

jollygreen68 wrote:
As far as me not being ready to tackle anything like I want, I'm not sure how you can make such a claim. As of right now, you would be correct. But if I read up on amp building, learn the hows and whys, I'm not sure how you can say I CAN'T do it. Like I said, I have great learning ability, when I put my mind to something I'm interested in, I digest LARGE amounts of info very quickly and want more, and I have good building skills. And correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like there are just a bunch parts, that need to be put together and soldered together in a certain way, and then you have an amp? It "seems" as if you have the schematic that someone else has already figured out by putting in tons of time and work, then more or less anyone can follow the directions and put it together and have it work, yes, no? I don't know, that is what it seems like. If I'm way off base, please correct me and steer me in the right direction.


I have a BSEE and studied vacuum tubes in college. I am continuing to study vacuum tube amp design in detail. Many of the people here are also engineers, military electronics technicians, or amp repair technicians. If you think you can follow a schematic and solder parts together without any understanding of amp design, I wish you luck. I guarantee you will find yourself in deep $hit in nothing flat. My Trainwreck build took about two months to build and another two months (both working weekends only) to debug and tweak. These are not paint by numbers projects. Some kits come with detailed instructions. The ones I build do not.

jollygreen68 wrote:
I'd love it if you had suggestions for books or websites I could go to where I can learn HOW to build my own amp and understand how changing different aspects can shape the tone/sound of the amp. I'm REALLY intrigued by the ability to be able to build my own amp that sounds amazing for WAY less then it would cost someone else to do it for me. As I said, as of right now, I'm a beginner and have rudimentary ideas about how the amps work and why certain things do this or that. But as with anything, learning and practicing is how you get better at anything, it isn't some innate ability you are born with or not, like some magical power to know how to build amps or not. If I can read and follow directions, I'm sure anyone, including myself, can build an amp. Now as far as modding it to sound a very specific way, I'm sure that takes years and years of knowledge, experience, and practice to achieve. But I'm not interested in that as of right now. I just want to learn how and why amps work, and how I can build one based off of other popular or amazing sounding schematics that some other genius has figured out. If you would be so kind as to list any and all references you have on this topic, I would greatly appreciate that. Like I said, I want to learn. I want to build. I want to feel the satisfaction of building my own amp that I can play on. That would be amazing, and give me a lifetime of fun.

Thanks

Best


My previous post provided a link to a thread I started with a complete listing of the books I and others have studied and used in our endeavors. Start there and good luck.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:20 pm
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jollygreen68 wrote:
...it looks like there are just a bunch parts, that need to be put together and soldered together in a certain way, and then you have an amp? It "seems" as if you have the schematic that someone else has already figured out by putting in tons of time and work, then more or less anyone can follow the directions and put it together and have it work, yes, no?...


That's it in a nutshell. The placement of components in an amp is often critical, and you don't really need to know about amp design or theory to put together a kit. So, if you can follow a layout/directions, you should do well. If you decide to deviate from the layout, you can have problems, as bluesky636 can attest.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:25 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
...it looks like there are just a bunch parts, that need to be put together and soldered together in a certain way, and then you have an amp? It "seems" as if you have the schematic that someone else has already figured out by putting in tons of time and work, then more or less anyone can follow the directions and put it together and have it work, yes, no?...


That's it in a nutshell. The placement of components in an amp is often critical, and you don't really need to know about amp design or theory to put together a kit. So, if you can follow a layout/directions, you should do well. If you decide to deviate from the layout, you can have problems, as bluesky636 can attest.




That's what I thought. You just follow the schematic and put things together the right way based on whatever amp scheme someone else has already created and if you did everything right, it will sound amazing. But if you want to deviate from the scheme and do your own mods, I'm sure it can take a lifetime of experience or at least 10,000 hrs to be able to make it work.

So now knowing that, I'm obviously going to be looking for an amp I can make that has a schematic and tubes to sound how my "IDEAL" amp would sound. Hopefully there are some people on here that can help steer in the right direction to find amp kits or schematics for some great amps.

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:54 pm
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Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
jollygreen68 wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
...it looks like there are just a bunch parts, that need to be put together and soldered together in a certain way, and then you have an amp? It "seems" as if you have the schematic that someone else has already figured out by putting in tons of time and work, then more or less anyone can follow the directions and put it together and have it work, yes, no?...


That's it in a nutshell. The placement of components in an amp is often critical, and you don't really need to know about amp design or theory to put together a kit. So, if you can follow a layout/directions, you should do well. If you decide to deviate from the layout, you can have problems, as bluesky636 can attest.




That's what I thought. You just follow the schematic and put things together the right way based on whatever amp scheme someone else has already created and if you did everything right, it will sound amazing. But if you want to deviate from the scheme and do your own mods, I'm sure it can take a lifetime of experience or at least 10,000 hrs to be able to make it work.

So now knowing that, I'm obviously going to be looking for an amp I can make that has a schematic and tubes to sound how my "IDEAL" amp would sound. Hopefully there are some people on here that can help steer in the right direction to find amp kits or schematics for some great amps.

Thanks

Best


Can't say that I agree with shimmilou. If you really believe you can throw together your dream amp and have it work the first time you turn the power switch on, I wish you luck. I've seen plenty of threads in other forums where people believed as you do, and they failed miserably. When it does, troubleshooting can be a nightmare. Unless you have a basic knowledge of amp design, I don't know how you will even find an amp that sounds the way you want it to the first time around.

Here's what one of my kits looked like when I took the parts out of the box:

Image

This is the schematic (which I drew from the amp I was cloning):

Image

And a final "gut" shot:

Image

I spent days getting the wire dress right so the amp was not a howling mess.

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