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Post subject: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:19 am
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So I'm interested in modding my Fender Hot Rod Blues DeVille 4x10 to sound a bit more gritty, break up earlier, sweeter and rounder sounding, etc, not so sterile, loud, and overall just not special. Click the link at the bottom to hear this SWEET modded Custom Vibrolux Reverb RI that was modded and sounds a lot like what I'm trying to get to.

I've read here and there that you can mod Fender amps to pretty much sound like anything you want more or less. I've found a few articles about modding your HR Blues amps to sound more how I described, and drop the volume somewhat from the earth shattering volumes it can get up to. One on this forum that I can't remember who posted was very in depth about switching out the preamp tubes in slots V1 and V3 to a 5751 and a 12AT7 respectively, ala SRV. The poster said it sounded really good. Dropped the overall volume some, had the whole thing sounding much warmer, sweeter, rounder, etc. But that is the only forum post I have found that went into great detail about trying different mods to get a HR Blues amp sounding much better. And of course I've seen the premier guitar article about "taming your fender hot rod."

So I was hoping some of you amp tinkerer's would have some advice on how to get a better sounding amp out of my HR Blues DeVille 4x10.

Things I like about the amp right now:
–it's loud as hell
–the reverb is good
–it's got pretty good bass response
–overall the tone is decent, I don't hate it

Things I don't like about the amp right now:
–it's loud as hell, haha. Would like to bring down the overall volume some
–the treble can usually be really loud and piercing at most levels and doesn't have that sweet/soft/chime of classic Fender amps
–overall the tone isn't anything special and feels as if it's pretty bland and lacking "it"

How I want this amp to sound if possible:
–like a Vibro King
–like how the amp in the video below sounds
–warm, round, sweet, lots of mids, good bass, more chimey/bell like treble instead of ear piercing highs
–some early break up, crunch/dirt compared to the stock amp setup having none

Just hoping some others out there have experimented with modding their Fender amps and found some really sweet sounds they can share.

I know speakers are a HUGE part of the overall tone, but as of right now, I don't have the money to change out 4 speakers. I'm just going to stick to tubes and anything else fairly inexpensive I can try, and then see how it goes. If these mods work and get it sounding awesome, then I'll definitely try saving up and adding speakers when I can afford them down the line. I may or may not keep the amp and just end up buying either a used Vibrolux Reverb or Vibro King someday after selling this off if I don't like how the mods work.

Thanks

Youtube video of a CVR that has been mod'd, but poster isn't really sure what or how it was modified. But I LOVE the sounds this amp make and hope I can get something that resembles it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWH8LdjKUcA


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm
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jollygreen68 wrote:
...switching out the preamp tubes in slots V1 and V3 to a 5751 and a 12AT7 respectively, ala SRV....


Hi jollygreen68,

I think that this would be a great start, and might be all that you need (my preferred preamp lineup). To take it a bit further, maybe also a 5751 in V2, with V2 having more impact on the drive/more drive channel. Something else to consider is changing the screen grid resistors from the existing 470 ohm to 2K ohm, or as much as 5K ohm (I used 2K myself). The increased SGR value will give a bit of compression to the tone, more compression with higher value, which means a bit earlier and smoother breakup on the drive/more drive channel.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:44 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
...switching out the preamp tubes in slots V1 and V3 to a 5751 and a 12AT7 respectively, ala SRV....


Hi jollygreen68,

I think that this would be a great start, and might be all that you need (my preferred preamp lineup). To take it a bit further, maybe also a 5751 in V2, with V2 having more impact on the drive/more drive channel. Something else to consider is changing the screen grid resistors from the existing 470 ohm to 2K ohm, or as much as 5K ohm (I used 2K myself). The increased SGR value will give a bit of compression to the tone, more compression with higher value, which means a bit earlier and smoother breakup on the drive/more drive channel.


One important thing I forgot to mention is how I would "like" the two channels to sound, not just the amp as a whole. So I'd like the clean channel to in general just sound better, warmer, rounder, more “bluesy”, less harshness and more soft chime in the high end. A little less overall volume, but still pretty clean for the most part unless I push it really hard.

But then I would like the drive channel to be very “supro”/”marshall” sounding, lots of mids/bass, great dirty sound, warm, fat, chunky, lots of rich harmonics, you know, nothing special ;) Because right now the gain channel is junk and sounds really harsh and “fake” sounding. I want my amp to sound as close as I can get to the one in the video I posted.

So would those tube changes you suggested and the screen grid resistors be the best I could do without getting really “into” the amp? By the way, I have no idea what the SGR's do, what they are, how much they cost, or where they are. I am very competent as far as mechanical stuff goes, repairing things, working with my hands etc. Just have limited experience with amps. And I have a buddy who is great with a soldering iron, so that wouldn't be an issue either. So is that something I can easily do?

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 5:54 pm
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Also forgot one more thing. I've read a tiny bit that the brand of tube makes a fairly big difference in the overall tone of the amp as well? Is this true? Someone has suggested I replace the GT 6L6 power tubes with KT66 tubes instead, and from some specific brand (something like Quratang or some Korean/Chinese sounding name). He said they will sound MUCH better then stock GT's that are actually just Sovtek 5881's? So do you think that the brand of tube makes as much a difference as the type of tube? And what will changing the two 6L6 power tubes do for the sound of the amp? I'm not to well versed on how tube amps work and why certain changes make a difference.

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:33 pm
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jollygreen68 wrote:
So I'm interested in modding my Fender Hot Rod Blues DeVille 4x10 to sound a bit more gritty, break up earlier, sweeter and rounder sounding, etc, not so sterile, loud, and overall just not special.


Before you make any mods to your amp, you need to clarify which amp you actually own. There is no such amp as a "Hot Rod Blues Deville 4x10". Fender makes a Hot Rod Deville 4x10 and a Blues Deville 4x10. They are totally different in design and tone. There are also different versions of each (Hot Rod Deville/Hot Rod Deville III and Blues Deville/Blues Deville Reissue). So, once you tell us which amp you actually own, we will be in a better position to help you.

I have a very long thread on modifications I have done to the Blues Deluxe Reissue, much of which is applicable to whichever amp you own. I am away on travel and don't have the link handy but will be happy to post it when I return home on Saturday.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:59 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
So I'm interested in modding my Fender Hot Rod Blues DeVille 4x10 to sound a bit more gritty, break up earlier, sweeter and rounder sounding, etc, not so sterile, loud, and overall just not special.


Before you make any mods to your amp, you need to clarify which amp you actually own. There is no such amp as a "Hot Rod Blues Deville 4x10". Fender makes a Hot Rod Deville 4x10 and a Blues Deville 4x10. They are totally different in design and tone. There are also different versions of each (Hot Rod Deville/Hot Rod Deville III and Blues Deville/Blues Deville Reissue). So, once you tell us which amp you actually own, we will be in a better position to help you.

I have a very long thread on modifications I have done to the Blues Deluxe Reissue, much of which is applicable to whichever amp you own. I am away on travel and don't have the link handy but will be happy to post it when I return home on Saturday.


Ahhhh, your the guy I saw the EPIC long post on modifying your Blues Deluxe a long time ago and forgot to bookmark! What luck to find you! I just remember reading a few pages, which took a long time, and remember reading about the 5751 SRV tube in V1 and the 12at7 in V3 being a sweet combo!

The main thing I'm looking to do is like I described in my last 2 posts, get the clean channel volume down a bit with an audio taper pot, get it sounding much sweeter, richer , warmer, more mids, lots of harmonics, and more chime in the high end, less harshness. Then I want the drive channel to be really warm, round, fat, have early break up, exactly like the CVR sounds in the video I posted. Very bluesy and somewhat growly like a supro. Very un Fender sounding. I don't want that classic tight punchy bass and super bright high end. I wouldn't mind having the clean channel being a bit Fender sounding, but if possible, I would like to get the drive channel sounding much thicker and supro/Marshall sounding! Cause right now it sounds like crap on the drive channel! Very harsh and fake sounding. I don't know if you ever got that far in your exploring of sounds with your amp, but if you did, I would love to hear what you did.

As far as what amp specifically I have, I know it's a Hot Rod model and a 4x10, so I'm guessing a HR DeVille 4x10 and it's from the mid-late 90's I'm pretty sure. It has the silver panel underneath all the control knobs so I know it's not the newer HR DeVille III.

Thanks man

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:59 pm
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jollygreen68 wrote:
...I have no idea what the SGR's do, what they are, how much they cost, or where they are...


Check the schematic, SGRs are R61 and R62 on the HRDvl. The resistors are 470 ohm, 1 watt, very near the output tubes. The SGRs limit the voltage to the screen grids in the tubes, higher value SGRs mean less current flow through the tubes. The cost? A dollar for two resistors, maybe.

I would start with the tube changes and go from there.

Oh, almost forgot one important thing to check first, the bias of the output tubes. If the bias is cold, you might benefit by setting it to a reasonable level.

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Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Last edited by shimmilou on Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:14 pm
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I have a HRD lll. A 5751 (JJ) in V1 helped a lot but replacing the 6L6's with 5881's took the "idling" down a few notches and lets me work with the volume better because it is not as powerful. The 5881 tube is rated at 23-25 watts, so working within the power parameters of the tube one can still run a hot bias to get the a gritty sound at lower volumes. I am using a TS 5881 which fortunately has excellent tone. I have had nothing but compliments from listeners and users of my amp. The tube configuration has made it a very friendly amp to all ears considered. :lol:

This is the review for this tube:
Quote:
From our review of this tube: "The Tung-Sol 5881 tube may be the best option available for guitar toting tone freaks. The magic is definitely not in the name. The new Tungsol 5881 tube has it all going on. The pair I evaluated has been seeing steady gigging use for about 8 weeks. In this case, about 20 hours a week in a 1964 Fender Bassman running flat-out. One tube has drifted about 1ma, but that's after 150+ hours of full power usage. The tone is everything you would expect from NOS for about 1/3 of the price. These are full spectrum bottles that deliver everything from the classic, deep, "piano-like" lows to crystal clean highs. They are very tolerant with regards to biasing; allowing anything from 50% - 70% of rated plate dissipation to be dialed in at idle while still producing great tone. The construction differs slightly from the NOS in my possession but they are very close. Microphonics has not been an issue at all; no ringing, pops, ticks or squeals - unless you create them with a guitar. The overdriven tone is thick but articulate and just gets fatter the harder they are driven. Dime your amp and then use your guitar's volume and tone controls to dial in just about anything you want."

Not sure if the higher plate voltage of the deville makes this tube trickier to use. Safe up till 400 plate volts.

I have not found a use for the drive channel overall. I do not see it as a great loss.

The drive channel on my tubemeister 5 is another story. Love that one. I consider that my recording amp.

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Last edited by modwiz on Sat Apr 05, 2014 5:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:23 am
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jollygreen68 wrote:
Ahhhh, your the guy I saw the EPIC long post on modifying your Blues Deluxe a long time ago and forgot to bookmark! What luck to find you! I just remember reading a few pages, which took a long time, and remember reading about the 5751 SRV tube in V1 and the 12at7 in V3 being a sweet combo!


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=80142

jollygreen68 wrote:
The main thing I'm looking to do is like I described in my last 2 posts, get the clean channel volume down a bit with an audio taper pot, get it sounding much sweeter, richer , warmer, more mids, lots of harmonics, and more chime in the high end, less harshness. Then I want the drive channel to be really warm, round, fat, have early break up, exactly like the CVR sounds in the video I posted. Very bluesy and somewhat growly like a supro. Very un Fender sounding. I don't want that classic tight punchy bass and super bright high end. I wouldn't mind having the clean channel being a bit Fender sounding, but if possible, I would like to get the drive channel sounding much thicker and supro/Marshall sounding! Cause right now it sounds like crap on the drive channel! Very harsh and fake sounding. I don't know if you ever got that far in your exploring of sounds with your amp, but if you did, I would love to hear what you did.


The clean channel volume control already is an audio taper pot. You would be wasting your time and money changing it.

You don't want much as far as changing your amp sound, do you?

You need to understand that the drive channel is merely an extension of the clean channel. It is not a separate channel. What you do to one, affects the other. The drive channel is designed primarily for achieve preamp distortion/overdrive as opposed to power amp distortion/overdrive. My thread discusses some changes that will thicken up the drive channel, but there is not much you can do to it on its own. It also talks about tone stack changes (which affect both clean and drive). Shimmilou has provided some good suggestions. Tube changes will affect both channels.

To be frank, from your description, you may not be able to achieve your goals with this amp and may in fact have bought the wrong amp for your needs.

jollygreen68 wrote:
As far as what amp specifically I have, I know it's a Hot Rod model and a 4x10, so I'm guessing a HR DeVille 4x10 and it's from the mid-late 90's I'm pretty sure. It has the silver panel underneath all the control knobs so I know it's not the newer HR DeVille III.


There should be a big metal panel on the back of the amp which tells you the name of the amp.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:57 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
Ahhhh, your the guy I saw the EPIC long post on modifying your Blues Deluxe a long time ago and forgot to bookmark! What luck to find you! I just remember reading a few pages, which took a long time, and remember reading about the 5751 SRV tube in V1 and the 12at7 in V3 being a sweet combo!


viewtopic.php?f=13&t=80142

jollygreen68 wrote:
The main thing I'm looking to do is like I described in my last 2 posts, get the clean channel volume down a bit with an audio taper pot, get it sounding much sweeter, richer , warmer, more mids, lots of harmonics, and more chime in the high end, less harshness. Then I want the drive channel to be really warm, round, fat, have early break up, exactly like the CVR sounds in the video I posted. Very bluesy and somewhat growly like a supro. Very un Fender sounding. I don't want that classic tight punchy bass and super bright high end. I wouldn't mind having the clean channel being a bit Fender sounding, but if possible, I would like to get the drive channel sounding much thicker and supro/Marshall sounding! Cause right now it sounds like crap on the drive channel! Very harsh and fake sounding. I don't know if you ever got that far in your exploring of sounds with your amp, but if you did, I would love to hear what you did.


The clean channel volume control already is an audio taper pot. You would be wasting your time and money changing it.

You don't want much as far as changing your amp sound, do you?

You need to understand that the drive channel is merely an extension of the clean channel. It is not a separate channel. What you do to one, affects the other. The drive channel is designed primarily for achieve preamp distortion/overdrive as opposed to power amp distortion/overdrive. My thread discusses some changes that will thicken up the drive channel, but there is not much you can do to it on its own. It also talks about tone stack changes (which affect both clean and drive). Shimmilou has provided some good suggestions. Tube changes will affect both channels.

To be frank, from your description, you may not be able to achieve your goals with this amp and may in fact have bought the wrong amp for your needs.

jollygreen68 wrote:
As far as what amp specifically I have, I know it's a Hot Rod model and a 4x10, so I'm guessing a HR DeVille 4x10 and it's from the mid-late 90's I'm pretty sure. It has the silver panel underneath all the control knobs so I know it's not the newer HR DeVille III.


There should be a big metal panel on the back of the amp which tells you the name of the amp.




I'm 99% sure it's a DeVille. I know 100% that it's a Hot Rod and a 4x10. So after looking them up, it seems I have a HR DeVille 4x10. I can't look at the metal plate because it's at our practice space and I don't have access to it right now. But almost positive it's a HR DeVille 4x10.

So the clean channel has an audio taper pot already?? So then why is it that when I turn the amp from 0-1 it gets really loud, and then from 1-4 it gets crazy loud, and then from 4-12, louder, but not anywhere near as much as it already did from the lower stages? I've read that that is typical of a linear pot?

As for the drive channel being an extension of the clean... I did not know that. I have heard many other amps that have a distinct clean channel and then the drive channel is quite a bit different. So I just thought that they were different and would have different aspects that affect them separately. So as far as the drive channel goes, I guess I'd just like it to sound more like that CVR I posted the video of, a bit more Marshally/Supro sounding, while still retaining it's overall Fender signature sound. And in general both channels, just more vintage sounding: rounder, warmer, softer edges on notes, a little darker. Not so harsh, bright, punchy, scooped mids. I don't know if that is even possible with this amp and just making some tube changes, but if it is, I'm all ears.

And in general, do you think I should just be looking for another type of amp all together, or can this amp be made to sound more how I want? If there is no point in "trying" to mod this thing and spending lots of money, then I'll just move on to another amp. In your opinion, how much % change to the overall sound does changing the tubes and or the amps bias make, speakers not being part of the equation?

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:00 am
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modwiz wrote:
I have a HRD lll. A 5751 (JJ) in V1 helped a lot but replacing the 6L6's with 5881's took the "idling" down a few notches and lets me work with the volume better because it is not as powerful. The 5881 tube is rated at 23-25 watts, so working within the power parameters of the tube one can still run a hot bias to get the a gritty sound at lower volumes. I am using a TS 5881 which fortunately has excellent tone. I have had nothing but compliments from listeners and users of my amp. The tube configuration has made it a very friendly amp to all ears considered. :lol:

This is the review for this tube:
Quote:
From our review of this tube: "The Tung-Sol 5881 tube may be the best option available for guitar toting tone freaks. The magic is definitely not in the name. The new Tungsol 5881 tube has it all going on. The pair I evaluated has been seeing steady gigging use for about 8 weeks. In this case, about 20 hours a week in a 1964 Fender Bassman running flat-out. One tube has drifted about 1ma, but that's after 150+ hours of full power usage. The tone is everything you would expect from NOS for about 1/3 of the price. These are full spectrum bottles that deliver everything from the classic, deep, "piano-like" lows to crystal clean highs. They are very tolerant with regards to biasing; allowing anything from 50% - 70% of rated plate dissipation to be dialed in at idle while still producing great tone. The construction differs slightly from the NOS in my possession but they are very close. Microphonics has not been an issue at all; no ringing, pops, ticks or squeals - unless you create them with a guitar. The overdriven tone is thick but articulate and just gets fatter the harder they are driven. Dime your amp and then use your guitar's volume and tone controls to dial in just about anything you want."

Not sure if the higher plate voltage of the deville makes this tube trickier to use. Safe up till 400 plate volts.

I have not found a use for the drive channel overall. I do not see it as a great loss.

The drive channel on my tubemeister 5 is another story. Love that one. I consider that my recording amp.




Well thank you sir for all the information. I will take it all in along with the other info I've been receiving and see what it leads me too. I appreciate your info.

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:03 am
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shimmilou wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
...I have no idea what the SGR's do, what they are, how much they cost, or where they are...


Check the schematic, SGRs are R61 and R62 on the HRDvl. The resistors are 470 ohm, 1 watt, very near the output tubes. The SGRs limit the voltage to the screen grids in the tubes, higher value SGRs mean less current flow through the tubes. The cost? A dollar for two resistors, maybe.

I would start with the tube changes and go from there.

Oh, almost forgot one important thing to check first, the bias of the output tubes. If the bias is cold, you might benefit by setting it to a reasonable level.



Thank you for the information sir. I still don't know what the SGR's are, or really what they do, but I'll do a bunch of research and see if I can find out. I was hoping you would be able to describe them to me like I had no idea, which is the case, haha. I have no idea what they are or do. But thanks for the info, I will take it into account. I'm going to try some tubes first and see how that goes, and go from there as far as keeping the amp or selling it to explore a different amp all together.

Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:39 am
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jollygreen68 wrote:
I'm 99% sure it's a DeVille. I know 100% that it's a Hot Rod and a 4x10. So after looking them up, it seems I have a HR DeVille 4x10. I can't look at the metal plate because it's at our practice space and I don't have access to it right now. But almost positive it's a HR DeVille 4x10.

So the clean channel has an audio taper pot already?? So then why is it that when I turn the amp from 0-1 it gets really loud, and then from 1-4 it gets crazy loud, and then from 4-12, louder, but not anywhere near as much as it already did from the lower stages? I've read that that is typical of a linear pot?

As for the drive channel being an extension of the clean... I did not know that. I have heard many other amps that have a distinct clean channel and then the drive channel is quite a bit different. So I just thought that they were different and would have different aspects that affect them separately. So as far as the drive channel goes, I guess I'd just like it to sound more like that CVR I posted the video of, a bit more Marshally/Supro sounding, while still retaining it's overall Fender signature sound. And in general both channels, just more vintage sounding: rounder, warmer, softer edges on notes, a little darker. Not so harsh, bright, punchy, scooped mids. I don't know if that is even possible with this amp and just making some tube changes, but if it is, I'm all ears.

And in general, do you think I should just be looking for another type of amp all together, or can this amp be made to sound more how I want? If there is no point in "trying" to mod this thing and spending lots of money, then I'll just move on to another amp. In your opinion, how much % change to the overall sound does changing the tubes and or the amps bias make, speakers not being part of the equation?

Thanks

Best


First of all, you will never make that amp sound like the one in the video without a complete redesign. The two amps are totally different in electrical design, and size/number/type of speakers.

The amp becomes loud quickly because of the amount of gain present in the front end. Lower gain tubes will fix that with no other mods.

Second, except for a few component values, the tone stack already is a Marshall (actually 59 Bassman which is what Marshall copied) type tone stack. Changing those components will not make the amp sound like a Marshall, although it will sound different. My thread goes into great detail on the tone stack mods and their effect.

Do you know how to read and understand a schematic diagram? If you don't, this is not the amp to learn on. Also, because of the PCB construction, it is not the amp to learn how to mod on as you can easily damage the traces and ribbon cables if you are not careful (and even if you are). If this is an early, USA made amp, you must remove or at least drop down the PCB to unsolder and change components.

Many of the mods in my thread can be applied to your amp (if you understand schematics enough to decide which ones are applicable) if you are determined to mod the amp. Can you make it sound like the video or a Supro/Marshall? In my opinion, no. Can you make it sound different than it does and maybe better? Yes. Start with the easy things like tube and speaker changes. Read my thread all the way through to understand what I did and why. Ask more questions.

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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:49 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
jollygreen68 wrote:
I'm 99% sure it's a DeVille. I know 100% that it's a Hot Rod and a 4x10. So after looking them up, it seems I have a HR DeVille 4x10. I can't look at the metal plate because it's at our practice space and I don't have access to it right now. But almost positive it's a HR DeVille 4x10.

So the clean channel has an audio taper pot already?? So then why is it that when I turn the amp from 0-1 it gets really loud, and then from 1-4 it gets crazy loud, and then from 4-12, louder, but not anywhere near as much as it already did from the lower stages? I've read that that is typical of a linear pot?

As for the drive channel being an extension of the clean... I did not know that. I have heard many other amps that have a distinct clean channel and then the drive channel is quite a bit different. So I just thought that they were different and would have different aspects that affect them separately. So as far as the drive channel goes, I guess I'd just like it to sound more like that CVR I posted the video of, a bit more Marshally/Supro sounding, while still retaining it's overall Fender signature sound. And in general both channels, just more vintage sounding: rounder, warmer, softer edges on notes, a little darker. Not so harsh, bright, punchy, scooped mids. I don't know if that is even possible with this amp and just making some tube changes, but if it is, I'm all ears.

And in general, do you think I should just be looking for another type of amp all together, or can this amp be made to sound more how I want? If there is no point in "trying" to mod this thing and spending lots of money, then I'll just move on to another amp. In your opinion, how much % change to the overall sound does changing the tubes and or the amps bias make, speakers not being part of the equation?

Thanks

Best


First of all, you will never make that amp sound like the one in the video without a complete redesign. The two amps are totally different in electrical design, and size/number/type of speakers.

The amp becomes loud quickly because of the amount of gain present in the front end. Lower gain tubes will fix that with no other mods.

Second, except for a few component values, the tone stack already is a Marshall (actually 59 Bassman which is what Marshall copied) type tone stack. Changing those components will not make the amp sound like a Marshall, although it will sound different. My thread goes into great detail on the tone stack mods and their effect.

Do you know how to read and understand a schematic diagram? If you don't, this is not the amp to learn on. Also, because of the PCB construction, it is not the amp to learn how to mod on as you can easily damage the traces and ribbon cables if you are not careful (and even if you are). If this is an early, USA made amp, you must remove or at least drop down the PCB to unsolder and change components.

Many of the mods in my thread can be applied to your amp (if you understand schematics enough to decide which ones are applicable) if you are determined to mod the amp. Can you make it sound like the video or a Supro/Marshall? In my opinion, no. Can you make it sound different than it does and maybe better? Yes. Start with the easy things like tube and speaker changes. Read my thread all the way through to understand what I did and why. Ask more questions.



Yeah, I got that answer from someone else on another forum who is an amp builder :( So I'll just try the tubes and whatever else I can easily do for now, and go from there. I'll have to go through your entire thread when I have time and read up more. It's SOO long and there is so much info to to sift through.

And I know that the Bassman is the original amp that Marshall sort of "borrowed" from. And I know my HR DeVille 4x10 is "supposed" to be like a Bassman, but in my limited experience with both amps, and a Marshall, I don't really hear any similarities. The Bassman is much warmer, richer, less bright, darker in a good way, more mids then my amp. And a Marshall JCM800 which is a pretty good example of a Marshall sounds almost nothing like my amp. I'm not sure what you are referring to, but would love to learn more and hear how they might have similar "tone stacks."

I do not know how to read a schematic diagram as of right now, but would love to learn and love to be able to make my own amp someday! So knowing that, what are some good amps I could consider to be able to mod and work on, knowing what you know about what I want out of an amp as far as tone. I'd want something in the 2x10, 2x12, 3x10, 4x10, etc, 500-900 used, and power in the 25-60 watt range. I think I want to find something that already sounds more like what I'm looking for, is easy to mod, and then work on that and see how it goes. Maybe down the road build my own amp from scratch! That would be amazing and super rewarding. Plus I'd have an amp that sounds incredible and more or less exactly like what I want.

And I will definitely ask more questions as they come up. I appreciate your time and info, it is much appreciated
Thanks

Best


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Post subject: Re: HR DeVille 4x10 mods?
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:12 pm
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Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
jollygreen68 wrote:
Yeah, I got that answer from someone else on another forum who is an amp builder :( So I'll just try the tubes and whatever else I can easily do for now, and go from there. I'll have to go through your entire thread when I have time and read up more. It's SOO long and there is so much info to to sift through.

And I know that the Bassman is the original amp that Marshall sort of "borrowed" from. And I know my HR DeVille 4x10 is "supposed" to be like a Bassman, but in my limited experience with both amps, and a Marshall, I don't really hear any similarities. The Bassman is much warmer, richer, less bright, darker in a good way, more mids then my amp. And a Marshall JCM800 which is a pretty good example of a Marshall sounds almost nothing like my amp. I'm not sure what you are referring to, but would love to learn more and hear how they might have similar "tone stacks."

I do not know how to read a schematic diagram as of right now, but would love to learn and love to be able to make my own amp someday! So knowing that, what are some good amps I could consider to be able to mod and work on, knowing what you know about what I want out of an amp as far as tone. I'd want something in the 2x10, 2x12, 3x10, 4x10, etc, 500-900 used, and power in the 25-60 watt range. I think I want to find something that already sounds more like what I'm looking for, is easy to mod, and then work on that and see how it goes. Maybe down the road build my own amp from scratch! That would be amazing and super rewarding. Plus I'd have an amp that sounds incredible and more or less exactly like what I want.

And I will definitely ask more questions as they come up. I appreciate your time and info, it is much appreciated
Thanks

Best


Tone stack mods are covered in detail in my thread.

The only amps that are simple to mod are simple amps. Like this one:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=63259

In my estimation, you are not ready to tackle anything like what you list. Learning to read a schematic and wiring diagram is mandatory before you even think about working on an amp.

There are several build threads here in this forum including these two of mine:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65668

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=83741&p=945479#p945479

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