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Post subject: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:10 am
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Hi
I am new to this forum. I am posting about an issue I am having with my Supersonic Twin combo amp. I’ve seen this topic in the forums previously, but never read a solution to the problem, although it appears that a subset of the people who own this amp have the issue, and a subset do not.

The issue details are as follows. The effects loop introduces an unacceptable amount of noise into the signal path. Here are my test conditions. The amplifier is turned on, and warmed up with nothing at all plugged into the front input. The reverb is in the off position at the reverb knob. The foot switch is not connected. If I plug a patch cable into the effects send, the amp remains quiet. If I plug the other end of the patch cable into the effects return, the amp becomes noisy. If I disconnect the end of the patch in the send, so it is only connected by the return, the amp remains noisy. If I turn both the send a returns all the way off, the amp remains noisy. If I switch channels on the amp, the amp remains noisy. If I use a different patch cable (several actually), the amp remains noisy. The only thing I can do to make the noise go away, is to disconnect the patch cable from the effects return, or shut the amp off.

To restate, the only thing connected to the amp is the power cable, and a patch cord in the effects loop. I can reproduce this issue 100% of the time by simply plugging a patch cable into the effects return, even without patching the other end into the send. It is noisy regardless of whether the send is patched or not.

I bought this amp brand new in December of 2012, and it has always done it. I read in another thread about somebody with the exact same problem. He returned the amp for another one, and it had the same problem. He posted to the forums, but he never resolved the issue, and I think he ended up getting rid of the amp. I hope I have better luck.

Does anybody have any ideas on how to address this problem?

Thanks


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:09 am
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Hi again mrmoore,

Is there any difference when you have a patch cable in the effects loop (noise present), and switch the effects loop off with the foot switch?

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:53 am
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Hi.

Thanks for responding. It has been a long time since I have worked on this problem. Your question sounds like something I would have tried, but I honestly can’t remember off the top of my head. I’m going to test it when I go home for lunch, but if I were to guess, I would say that doing a toggle of the effects loop via the foot switch does not make the problem go away. I’ll know for certain in a few hours.


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:26 am
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Good thing I didn't rely on my recall to answer your question. When I connect the foot switch and toggle the Effects loop off, the noise goes away as well. So whenever the effects loop is engaged it creates an unusable amount of noise when a patch is connected to the effects return jack, regardless of whether the level is all the way down or not. Any thoughts?


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:00 pm
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The first thing that comes to mind is a noisy tube, V8 and/or V7. Do you have a known good 12AX7 that you could try in each position, one at a time?

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:43 pm
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The only preamp tubes I have are all installed in the amp already. I can tell which is 7 and which is 8 from the diagram on the inside of the case.

This is an assumption, and may be incorrect, but I think 7 is the send and 8 is the return. I only say that because of the location of the jacks in relation to the tubes, which may have nothing to do with it. I'm by no means an amp technician.

Should I swap them to see if the problem follows the tube and ends up happening from the send jack, or should I just get my hands on another tube and try one at a time, as you have suggested?

I appreciate you trying to work through this with me.


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:00 pm
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You can swap V8 (effects return tube) with V7, but I would rather try to swap V8 with V1,2,3 or 4.

By looking at the Circuit Diagram, there is not much to the EFFECTS RETURN circuit, just a couple caps and resistors and a tube stage. If swapping the tube does not fix the issue then you may have an earthing issue between the effects jack PCB and the main PCB.

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:32 am
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AaronK wrote:
...try to swap V8 with V1,2,3 or 4...


+1

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:28 am
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Thanks, guys. I'll give it a shot tonight after work, and post the results.


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:30 pm
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It doesn't appear to be tube issue. I swapped v8 with v1 and I can still reduce the problem.
So it sounds like the next thing is to investigate a grounding issue between the effects jack printed circuit board and the main pcb?

Is that something I have to bring in to a repair shop for? Or is that something a non amp tech like me can do?


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:39 am
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http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=85498&hilit=+Supersonic+twin+internals

This is what it looks like inside the chassis, you decide.

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:16 am
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I wanted to provide some backstory on my issue. I bought my Supersonic in December of 2012. I was running a Cybertwin before, which I still use as a practice amp, so I didn’t really own any effects. The Cybertwin took care of that for me.

With the new amp I started on the learning path of selecting my effects, determining what I was going to use for a board, and researching pedal order. This took me a good month of ownership to purchase and integrate. One of the things I read was the benefit of running time-based pedals through the effects loop, which I had not heard of before and was eager to try. That is when I first discovered the problem I’ve described with my effects loop.

I could avoid this problem by running everything through the input of the amp. That is what I used to do, and it isn’t like it sounds horrible to me. Here is my issue. I paid a lot of money for the amp, and feel everything should work as expected. Fender should be held accountable for anything less. The service is where it starts to get messy.

There are two authorized Fender repair shops in my state, which is where I have to go in order to get the work covered by Fender. One of them is about 5 minutes away. The other is an hour away. I have brought this problem to the local shop twice. It has returned both times with no change, although work was documented as being done. I can’t get into the specifics of what was done because I can’t read the handwriting on the paperwork I got when I picked it up. Needless to say, my confidence of them being able to solve the problem is pretty low.

The other shop that is an hour away has its own unique challenges that have my confidence feeling low. The guy that services the amps doesn’t work at the shop. He comes in to pick them up. When I called, I learned he doesn’t have a schedule, so they couldn’t tell me when he would pick the amp up to service it. They couldn’t give me a ball park on how long it would take to fix it, and they couldn’t tell me how long it would take for him to return it after he fixed it. Nor were they forthcoming with a phone number for me to engage directly with the technician. So I have no idea when I would even get my amp back, and no means of being able to talk to the tech before he services it to make sure he understands exactly what the problem is.

I am curious how others would approach this. As I mentioned, I think Fender should be held accountable for making the amp work exactly the way it is supposed to. But I wasn’t expecting the process to get it fixed to be so troublesome.
Any thoughts?


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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:09 am
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I feel your pain, any faults that emerge on my Twin will have to be fixed by myself as there are no authorized Techs in my country. I am of the opinion that if you want something fixed properly then do it yourself. If you don't have the skill then you are left to suffer the fools. Now in your case you should maybe expand your region of search to any skilled tech that can give you a good second opinion on what your fault is before you dive in and send it to the "Fender Techs" that you are weary of. It may be a cheap quick fix for a good amp tech.

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:37 am
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Any news on this matter? I have the excact same problem.

Regards, Jergn

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Post subject: Re: Noisy effects loop in Fender Supersonic Twin Combo amp
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:43 am
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I recently picked up a Super Sonic Twin and have been enjoying it immensely! On the noisy loop issue, I found that the effects loop sometimes (not consistently)
introduces a lot of hum/hiss, when engaged with the footswitch (or when the footswitch is not connected). Interestingly, I do NOT notice the extra noise from the effects loop when I connect a volume pedal in the OTHER loop, i.e., the "pre amp out", "power amp in" loop. Somehow, and I have no idea how, having the volume pedal between the pre amp and power amp seems to quiet down the noise introduced by the effects loop.

I run the volume pedal in the pre amp/power amp loop not specifically to quiet the effects loop, but instead because I like using the pedal to tame the volume of the beast to home friendly levels. I know some forum posters have disagreed with the use of a volume pedal for this purpose, but it works well for me. I use a low impedance Ernie Ball VP Jr pedal and it does not affect the tone in a way that I notice (other than to make it less loud). I first tried a high impedance pedal - meant for guitar - and it DEFINITELY sucked tone when run in the loop.

I hope this helps - the volume pedal is not a true "fix" for the noisy effects loop but it sure makes it better for me, and I like running the pedal anyway to control the volume. Good luck - I really think the Super Sonic Twin is a great player if you can dodge or work through some of the issues!


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