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Post subject: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:33 pm
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Hey guys, I've been sort of window shopping JBL-type speakers with the intention of throwing one in a Deluxe Reverb reissue. I'm looking to maximize efficiency, clarity and clean headroom for jazz, western swing and country settings, in a most likely-futile attempt to avoid sucking it up and trading the Deluxe for a backbreaking silverface Twin Reverb. I'm intrigued by the Eminence Commonwealth. However, it seems to have very few reviews, other than those by pedal steel players. I've seen a couple reviews/video demos with a Twin, but I'm specifically wondering if anyone here has tried it with a Deluxe. I'm also considering the Weber California, and would be looking at the Weber Neo as an obvious choice, but apparently the speaker baskets are backordered, and they never show up for sale used.

Thanks in advance for your help!


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:38 pm
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Neither of those speakers will ever sound like a JBL D120F -- their design and construction are totally different from that of the Lansing. Why not just shop for the "real McCoy" and get the tone you really want? Vintage JBL's remain available (albeit pricey) on the secondary market.

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:23 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Neither of those speakers will ever sound like a JBL D120F -- their design and construction are totally different from that of the Lansing. Why not just shop for the "real McCoy" and get the tone you really want? Vintage JBL's remain available (albeit pricey) on the secondary market.

Arjay


Well, yeah, to be honest, price is definitely a factor. I'm a little wary of the fact that most of the "affordable" JBL D or K120s out there seem to be either in need of a recone, or have already had an amateur-hour recone or two. I don't have the luxury of a "backup" Deluxe Reverb, so I'd prefer something new that has some of that JBL flavor, and will be reliable. The only JBLs out there that seem reasonably affordable are the E120s, but they don't seem to be as universally-loved in Fender amps as the alnico models.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 12:38 am
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This is the only way to get "that JBL flavor"......

Image

Image

Serviceable D120F's can sometimes be found priced not much more than a brand new Eminence Commonwealth. Or find a re-buildable basket and send it to a speaker shop that specializes in re-coning JBL's.

The reason that the E120 has so little appeal is because its motor is ceramic -- just like the Eminence Commonwealth and the Weber California.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:01 pm
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It seems to me the only people that comment on the Eminence Commonwealth are people who've never heard them. I now have two of them (15") in separate cabs for use with two different amps and I think they are excellent speakers. If what you want is huge sound with deep, rich lows, full pristine mids, and crystal clear highs IMO you won't find a better speaker. For years my speaker of choice has been a pair of M/B Thiele cabs loaded with 12" EVM-12L's because of their well deserved reputation as the best "clean" speaker out there. I still have those speakers but they haven't been used for a couple of years because IMO the Commonwealths are better in all area's. They are heavy and they took longer to break in then any guitar speaker I've ever used, but IMO they are well worth the extra hassle.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:47 pm
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Have you ever A/B'ed the Commonwealth against a D-series JBL using identical enclosures and amplifiers?

I have and while the Commonwealth is similar in sonic signature, its ceramic motor actually produces more high-end bite than the JBL. Not absurdly abusive, but the larger ferrite magnet tends to enhance the HF response. It's a good all-around speaker and of course its power-handling capability is significantly higher than a D120F (or even a K120). Unneeded treble response can easily be rolled back via the amp's tone controls. If Eminence made any mistakes at all, it's only that the Commonwealth 15 is available in a 4-ohm version only.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:32 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Have you ever A/B'ed the Commonwealth against a D-series JBL using identical enclosures and amplifiers?

I have and while the Commonwealth is similar in sonic signature, its ceramic motor actually produces more high-end bite than the JBL. Not absurdly abusive, but the larger ferrite magnet tends to enhance the HF response. It's a good all-around speaker and of course its power-handling capability is significantly higher than a D120F (or even a K120). Unneeded treble response can easily be rolled back via the amp's tone controls. If Eminence made any mistakes at all, it's only that the Commonwealth 15 is available in a 4-ohm version only. Arjay


From what I gather (just a guess from I've read on the Fender website) the choice to make the 15" version 4 ohms only was a Fender decision. When I was looking at/interested in a Fender 65' Twin Custom 15 a few short years ago they made a point of saying they worked closely with Eminence to recreate the sound of the JBL-D120F/D130F speakers that became part of their "legend". It seems to me the only amp Fender had in mind for the 15" version was the 65' Twin Custom 15 which required a 4 ohm speaker. I assume it was Eminences choice to make the 12" version in both 8 & 16 ohm versions but after a quick visit to their website I see the 12" version is now only available as an 8 ohm speaker. Either way I simply don't see the need to use multiples of this speaker as it is just pristine clean even with my Super Sonic 100 head at deafening levels.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:53 pm
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I spoke via e-mail at some length with an engineer at Eminence regarding the 4-ohm only Commonwealth 15 and while he echoed your assertion about the speaker being intended for Fender's Custom Twin Reverb 15 and Steel King, he was totally clueless about other possible applications which required 8-ohm speakers (such as replacement drivers for use with vintage Dual Showman's and '64 Vibroverb's). I was seriously considering a pair for a Showman restoration but that consideration came to naught when it became obvious that Eminence would not be forthcoming with a suitable 8-ohm version.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:11 pm
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Danno1985 wrote:
I'm looking to maximize efficiency, clarity and clean headroom for jazz, western swing and country settings, in a most likely-futile attempt to avoid sucking it up and trading the Deluxe for a backbreaking silverface Twin Reverb.


If this is what you need - look no further than Warehouse WGS Retro 30, with 75Watts and 100dB sensitivity.

I have tested both JBL D120F and Retro 30 (in 1966 DeLuxe Reverb). The winner is Retro 30 hands down, let alone the price difference and reliability issues. You pay $200-250 for JBL (prolly in need of reckone) and you pay $69 for a brand new WGS (with warranty) which will serve you superbly for many years to come. :lol:


:D


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:35 pm
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
Danno1985 wrote:
I'm looking to maximize efficiency, clarity and clean headroom for jazz, western swing and country settings, in a most likely-futile attempt to avoid sucking it up and trading the Deluxe for a backbreaking silverface Twin Reverb.


If this is what you need - look no further than Warehouse WGS Retro 30, with 75Watts and 100dB sensitivity.
According to the WGS website the Retro 30 has a sensitivity rating of 98.86 db, not 100 db. Not only that it is voiced after the brit type speakers not the pristine clean speakers the OP was making reference to. On the other hand the speaker the OP originally posted about IS rated at 100 db. I still think his best bet is in fact the speaker he originally referred to, the Eminence Commonwealth.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:00 pm
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t0aj15 wrote:
According to the WGS website the Retro 30 has a sensitivity rating of 98.86 db, not 100 db. Not only that it is voiced after the brit type speakers not the pristine clean speakers the OP was making reference to. On the other hand the speaker the OP originally posted about IS rated at 100 db. I still think his best bet is in fact the speaker he originally referred to, the Eminence Commonwealth.


+1111111

The Retro 30 is voiced to resemble a Celestion V30 with its prototypically broad, mid-range bump and somewhat attenuated highs. For crystal-clear blackface/silverface tones, that's the last speaker I'd choose.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:01 pm
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It is funny how people around here judge musical products (a speaker in this case) without even hearing the performance/sonic characteristics of the same.
I can not (do not) talk about Eminence Commonwealth, as I never played/heard one, but Retro 30 and D120F is something I play on a daily basis thus my (humble) opinion.

Internet is such a miracle. :roll: :lol:



ps. In addition, Australian WGS distributor claims Retro 30 is 100dB .. :?:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271388501115 ... 1438.l2649


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:25 am
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
It is funny how people around here judge musical products (a speaker in this case) without even hearing the performance/sonic characteristics of the same.
I can not (do not) talk about Eminence Commonwealth, as I never played/heard one, but Retro 30 and D120F is something I play on a daily basis thus my (humble) opinion.
ps. In addition, Australian WGS distributor claims Retro 30 is 100dB .. :?:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/271388501115 ... 1438.l2649

First of all I didn't get my figures from Australian distributor, my figures come from 'THE' WGS website.

Secondly your making assumptions about what others do or do not know.

Thirdly if you are using an original D120F in your comparison your using a speaker that is likely 40+ years old and probably sounds much different then it did 40+ years ago. Let's face it, it's an electro/mechanical device and there are none that I know of that will still produce an output anywhere close to what they used to after 40+ years. If it's a modern rebuild then it's a totally different speaker altogether from what it was 40+ years ago. In either case IMO your comparison just holds no water.


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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:37 am
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t0aj15 wrote:
Thirdly if you are using an original D120F in your comparison your using a speaker that is likely 40+ years old and probably sounds much different then it did 40+ years ago. Let's face it, it's an electro/mechanical device and there are none that I know of that will still produce an output anywhere close to what they used to after 40+ years. If it's a modern rebuild then it's a totally different speaker altogether from what it was 40+ years ago. In either case IMO your comparison just holds no water.


True of course, but only to a degree. Owning examples of both original and re-coned JBL's, I can report with certainty that the tone and timbre of the re-build can be quite similar to a factory-original coil/cone assembly, contingent upon who did the work and what parts kit was used. Of course the alnico motor has aged and the flux density is likely decreased, and that too plays a role in a speaker's sonic performance (rare-earth magnets can be recharged but I've never opted to do so). These observations hold true regardless of speaker brand or type. I've had vintage Jensen's re-built to spec as well and they sound just as tasty as an all-original Chicago-made speaker (after a suitable break-in period).

JMOOC

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Eminence Commonwealth in Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:18 am
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Danno1985 wrote:
Hey guys, I've been sort of window shopping JBL-type speakers with the intention of throwing one in a Deluxe Reverb reissue. I'm looking to maximize efficiency, clarity and clean headroom for jazz, western swing and country settings, Thanks in advance for your help!

There is yet another choice for the kind of clarity you require, it's also an Eminence speaker called the the Legend EM-12 and is voiced after the EVM-12L that many guitar greats have used for many years now because of their clarity & sensitivity. It's a new model just having been released at this years NAMM show, I plan on a pair of these myself very soon now. See it here;

http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Legend_EM12


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