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Post subject: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:48 am
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Hi folks..

I just got a brand new Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and an Ibanez AS153. I am extremely happy with both save for a little problem. The Ibanez through this amp sounds very metallic with a somewhat harsh and annoying metal tone. (I'm strongly leaning in jazz directions not rock or metal)

This is a problem for me as I am looking for a sweet warm tone without that armour plated background attached.

I have been informed that there is a possible and not so expensive mod that can be done to this amp which will remove that frequency or tonal element without having to send it back and look for a replacement.

All suggestions and comments welcome.

Thank you.


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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:59 am
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Hi Maxxx,

Try a 5751 or 12AY7 in the V1 position, and a 12AT7 in the V3 position (PI). These lower gain tubes will warm up the amp, giving you quite a bit less gain and cleaner sound. If that still isn't enough, you can lower the gain even more with a 5751 or 12AY7 in the V2 position also. In case you weren't aware, looking at the back of the amp, the tube positions start at the right with V1 counting upward toward the left.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 8:06 am
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A 5751 not only calmed down the roar of my beast but, putting lower wattage 5881 power tubes in also helped a lot. I do not use the drive channel. I also have a CRex speaker. Very warm tone, not a metallic sound to be found.

There is plenty of good tone in this amp, managing guitar volume will get all the jazzy sound you want as long as it is in the normal channel. Trying input 2 might help also.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:28 pm
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Ummm, maybe before advising the OP to swap tubes and speakers he should learn how to use the volume and tone controls on the amp and guitar first? Also the bright switch and presence control on the amp. They provide more than enough range to get a warm jazz tone. Setting them wrong will result in the sound the OP is experiencing. After learning how to properly use the controls, then he can consider tube or speaker changes if he can't get the sound he is after. There always exists the possibility that this is the wrong amp for his needs.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:05 pm
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Thank you for the responses. I have been playing on and off and messing with guitars for over 30 years... I am very familiar with volume and tone controls on amps and guitars.

It's also not the guitar.. I have played it on other amps and it has a lovely sound indeed.. not metallic at all.

After lots of tests we have narrowed it down to the Fender Hot Rod amp. Only it sounds metallic.

Apart from speaker and tube changes are there any mods for the pre-amp or other component too to reduce or rather get rid of that slightly harsh steel like sound?


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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:14 pm
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ANY mod has the potential of voiding the warranty on the amp. Swapping tubes is the easiest mod. Speakers next. Beyond that, you get into circuit modifications such as the ones I have done to my Blues Deluxe Reissue:

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=80142

However, I stand behind my initial recommendation that you fully experiment with the controls on the amp and guitar (as a system, not just one or the other). If after doing so without success, then you can consider making modifications to the amp or buying a different amp.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:12 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Ummm, maybe before advising the OP to swap tubes and speakers he should learn how to use the volume and tone controls on the amp and guitar first?


Oops. Got carried away. :oops: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:19 pm
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Quote:
ANY mod has the potential of voiding the warranty on the amp.


Not if it was done by a Fender dealer..


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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:33 pm
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modwiz wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Ummm, maybe before advising the OP to swap tubes and speakers he should learn how to use the volume and tone controls on the amp and guitar first?


Oops. Got carried away. :oops: :lol:


I think it becomes all to common when someone complains about the tone of an amp to recommend changing something like a tube or a speaker. In this case, the OP complained about a "metallic" sound. What does that really mean? A lot of people when they complain that an amp is "too bright" don't realize that it is not necessarily the high treble that causes the problem but the upper midrange. An amp like the HRD has five basic controls that affect tone (not counting volume controls, which do affect at least our perception of tone): bass, middle, treble, presence, and bright switch. The tone stack on the HRD is very interactive, especially the midrange control. It is not set up for scooped mids like a Twin Reverb. Increasing the midrange control without cutting the treble control will in fact cause a significant increase in the entire treble range. Add to that. if one does not understand the purpose and function of the presence control and bright switch, a smooth sounding amp can be made to sound like fingernails on a chalk board. Therefore, in my opinion, it is very important that when one gets a new amp, they become thoroughly familiar with the operation of the available controls before any changes to an amp are made.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:35 pm
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Maxxx wrote:
Quote:
ANY mod has the potential of voiding the warranty on the amp.


Not if it was done by a Fender dealer..


I suggest you read this. Fender dealers will not mod amps.

http://www.fender.com/support/articles/ ... ification/

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:39 pm
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Maxxx wrote:
Hi folks..

I just got a brand new Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and an Ibanez AS153. I am extremely happy with both save for a little problem. The Ibanez through this amp sounds very metallic with a somewhat harsh and annoying metal tone. (I'm strongly leaning in jazz directions not rock or metal)

All suggestions and comments welcome.

Thank you.


Metallic like Metallica? Crunchy sounding OD? Maybe the idle bias of the 6L6GC's are a little too cold. Worth finding out. This procedure won't void your warranty.

Good luck with the amp!


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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 2:39 pm
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The sound is like that which you hear when you put brand new strings on a guitar. There is a kind of metallic rattle and clanky jangle going on and somehow spliced with the normal clean tone before they have been broken in.

This is the time when you are made to really realise you are playing on metal wires. The metalness is really apparent. And no it's not the strings and it's not the frets.. it's in the sound from the speaker. It detracts from the amp and guitars cleanness.


Thank you BlueSky for the explanation on the Fender amp. Could you possibly suggest some sample settings that may remove that metal flavour I'm hearing please?


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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:16 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Maxxx wrote:
Hi folks..

I just got a brand new Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and an Ibanez AS153. I am extremely happy with both save for a little problem. The Ibanez through this amp sounds very metallic with a somewhat harsh and annoying metal tone. (I'm strongly leaning in jazz directions not rock or metal)

All suggestions and comments welcome.

Thank you.


Metallic like Metallica? Crunchy sounding OD? Maybe the idle bias of the 6L6GC's are a little too cold. Worth finding out. This procedure won't void your warranty.

Good luck with the amp!


That would be a good thing to do to establish a baseline on general amp performance. Fender sets the bias at 60 mV at the test point which is cold. Warming that up might be enough to satisfy the OP or at least give a better starting point for working with the control settings.

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:21 pm
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Maxxx wrote:
The sound is like that which you hear when you put brand new strings on a guitar. There is a kind of metallic rattle and clanky jangle going on and somehow spliced with the normal clean tone before they have been broken in.

This is the time when you are made to really realise you are playing on metal wires. The metalness is really apparent. And no it's not the strings and it's not the frets.. it's in the sound from the speaker. It detracts from the amp and guitars cleanness.


Thank you BlueSky for the explanation on the Fender amp. Could you possibly suggest some sample settings that may remove that metal flavour I'm hearing please?


Well, my Blues Deluxe Reissue is similar to your amp in the clean channel but not exactly the same, plus I have also made a number of mods to the amp. But since you ask, with my Epiphone Les Paul (with Gibson Burstbucker 1 and 2 pickups), I use the following settings:

Treble = 4
Bass = 1
Midrange = 6
Presence = 8
Bright switch = On.

I also use input #1, but I am running a lower gain tube in V1 (5751).

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Post subject: Re: New Fender Hot Rod Deluxe III too metallic..
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:46 pm
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I have my settings the same as yours now BlueSky (but not your valve) and it still sounds like dead metal. I'm having a hard time even playing this amp.

I rehearsed with a drummer today for about 5 hours using his little Crate transistor heavy metal amp hooked up to a 4x4 cabinet and it had none of the metal sound my Hot Rod has and was a seriously amazing jazz tone on the clean channel. The AS153 sounded stunning. I was truly inspired.

I can't believe that this new Ibanez sounds better on his $40 amp than my new $1,000 Fender hot Rod Deluxe III. That can not be right.

I came home from my 5 hour rehearsal on a high.. plugged my guitar into the Fender Hot Rod, tried to play.. and a few minutes later unplugged and turned it off. Nothing. Dead.

Have to wait till new strings come and see how that pans out. But already I'm having visions of changing this entire amp. Each day I like it less and less.


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