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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:54 pm
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63supro wrote:
and if you ever had the back off it, you would see it's not built like a tank, but a Yugo.


LMMFAO

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Preach it, brutha supro!

:mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:43 am
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:lol: These guys forget wattage has nothing to do with tone and a forty watt amp is not twice as loud as a 20 watt amp. There are a lot of factors like speaker efficiency that come into play as well. My 20 watt Egnater and 18 watt clone can keep up with any HRdlx and cut the mix better too. Sorry guys that's been my experience with them. Some improvements were made in in the III series. The board is slightly thicker but not mil spec, but just good enough to help get rid of some of the heat related issues, they messed with a couple volume controls and used a better speaker. Still has the same cheap Taiwanese caps and other components.

All that counts is that you like the amp. It wasn't a good choice for me and gigging a couple nights a week No need to make silly statements like it the best amp ever, it isn't for many people. It's built at a specific lower end price point. There's a reason great amps cost more. Building my own amps, I get the quality, workmanship and reliability I need at a price that's more affordable to me.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:15 am
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63supro wrote:
:lol: These guys forget wattage has nothing to do with tone and a forty watt amp is not twice as loud as a 20 watt amp. There are a lot of factors like speaker efficiency that come into play as well.


+1000

It's why I can get away with playing a 12-watt Princeton driving a pair of 12-inch JBL's on a stage populated with AC30's, Super Reverb's, and Mesa-Boogie's and still sound relevant and credible. Most guys are amazed at my transformative conversion and when I tell them what it is, they invariable gasp, "It's a WHAT?!?!?". That's right, buddy......twelve watts.

:mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:59 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
63supro wrote:
and if you ever had the back off it, you would see it's not built like a tank, but a Yugo.


LMMFAO

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Preach it, brutha supro!

:mrgreen:

Arjay



It doesn't surprise me in the least that we have "tone snobs" here that think the only good Fender amps are the ones Leo built,...not entirely so. Don't misunderstand,...I am not knocking those amps at all,but I was not around yet when a LOT of those amps were out. At the time amps like the Twin Reverb and Deluxe Reverb came out,I was just a baby in my mother's arms! Those of us coming into the world at a later time and not beginning to play guitar until later in life have not had the opportunity to own such amps,so naturally,we're going to find the more modern amps to our liking,...some of us are not fortunate enough to have the money to buy those vintage/boutique amps and some don't have the "know how" to build our own amps,...it's time you "tone snobs" accept that fact. The more modern amps can sound just as good,...if not better,...than a vintage one to us "younger" players. Until I have the chance to compare my more modern HOT ROD amp against a vintage DR or TR,I will stick with my modern amp because it sounds JUST FINE to me. I would suggest to the OP that he try a Blues Jr(they ARE good amps,...NOT "fizz boxes" as some here claim)if he doesn't want to lug around a TR from gig to gig. DR would be second choice,...Hot Rod Dlx third choice. Not sure about the Black Star amp as I have never owned or tried one,...so I can't vouch for them!

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:47 am
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KC9SYJ wrote:
it's time you "tone snobs" accept that fact.


Hey pal, feel free to "accept" whatever you can afford. Enjoy your miserable fizz box if that's your choice. I refuse to accept the contemporary flotsam and jetsam that masquerades as a "professional-grade" guitar amp.

There's a reason why a '66 Deluxe Reverb is worth more than a dozen Blues Junior's. When you figure out why, you'll be on the road to sonic enlightenment.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:10 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
KC9SYJ wrote:
it's time you "tone snobs" accept that fact.


Hey pal, feel free to "accept" whatever you can afford. Enjoy your miserable fizz box if that's your choice. I refuse to accept the contemporary flotsam and jetsam that masquerades as a "professional-grade" guitar amp.

There's a reason why a '66 Deluxe Reverb is worth more than a dozen Blues Junior's. When you figure out why, you'll be on the road to sonic enlightenment.

Arjay


+1 A lot of players shop for price not tone. Has nothing to do with being a tone snob. :lol:
There are a lot better bang for the buck amps out there than the HRD series. Ampeg, Jet City, VHT are just a few of them. Nice sounding, gigable, reliable amps. If I'm a tone snob because I like my music to sound good, so be it. Just for the record, those older Fender amps are not true point to point. True point to point is just that, one component attached to the other without turret boards. The closest I came is my little 5 watter that I built using just a couple terminal strips for support. I have built a couple of pedals point to point. It's aggravating and fun at the same time. :lol: You don't have to have an old amp to be a tone snob, you just have to realize what good tone is. So I guess I'm a tone snob. If all you've ever play out of are HRD amps, you're really missing out on some fun. Don't just shop by price and name brands, use your ears instead and try many different brands. The only "vintage" amp I own now is my 74 Champ. The others I either build last year or it's a modern amp like my Rebel 20. For me, I find my rig outstanding as do most of my musician buddies who plug into it. If someone doesn't like it, I don't whine or get my panties in a bunch. I just crank it up. :lol:

Just for the record, if everyone was a tone snob, Fender would still be creating incredible amps instead of trying to only make as much profit as they can. I would gladly pay extra for great parts and reliability. But a grand for a Tweed Champ when I can build one for four bills? :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:18 pm
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63supro wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
KC9SYJ wrote:
it's time you "tone snobs" accept that fact.


Hey pal, feel free to "accept" whatever you can afford. Enjoy your miserable fizz box if that's your choice. I refuse to accept the contemporary flotsam and jetsam that masquerades as a "professional-grade" guitar amp.

There's a reason why a '66 Deluxe Reverb is worth more than a dozen Blues Junior's. When you figure out why, you'll be on the road to sonic enlightenment.

Arjay


+1 A lot of players shop for price not tone. Has nothing to do with being a tone snob. :lol:
There are a lot better bang for the buck amps out there than the HRD series. Ampeg, Jet City, VHT are just a few of them. Nice sounding, gigable, reliable amps. If I'm a tone snob because I like my music to sound good, so be it. Just for the record, those older Fender amps are not true point to point. True point to point is just that, one component attached to the other without turret boards. The closest I came is my little 5 watter that I built using just a couple terminal strips for support. I have built a couple of pedals point to point. It's aggravating and fun at the same time. :lol: You don't have to have an old amp to be a tone snob, you just have to realize what good tone is. So I guess I'm a tone snob. If all you've ever play out of are HRD amps, you're really missing out on some fun. Don't just shop by price and name brands, use your ears instead and try many different brands. The only "vintage" amp I own now is my 74 Champ. The others I either build last year or it's a modern amp like my Rebel 20. For me, I find my rig outstanding as do most of my musician buddies who plug into it. If someone doesn't like it, I don't whine or get my panties in a bunch. I just crank it up. :lol:

Just for the record, if everyone was a tone snob, Fender would still be creating incredible amps instead of trying to only make as much profit as they can. I would gladly pay extra for great parts and reliability. But a grand for a Tweed Champ when I can build one for four bills? :mrgreen:


I'd take the Blackstar over a Blues Jr any day.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:11 pm
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That's too bad if you want to get a bluesy or clean tube tone. The B*, although a fine amp, will not get anywhere near the sweet tones of a BJr.

My friends and I often laugh about the comments of "not a real Fender", or "boxy tone", or "fizzbox", as we play dueling BJrs, enjoying the sweet tones that we make.

I own a BJr II, HRDlx I, several vintage amps (Fender and others), just picked up my fourth B*, Laney, Peavey, Carvin, MB, and I have owned/used many others in the past, I have serviced and tried even more types, all are different, each has a rather unique sound, and I like nearly all of them......except the only one that just plain crapped out, that is Egnater, horrible amps that you couldn't pay me to have. Just read the signature line of Retroverbial. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 pm
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Egnater was horrible for you Lou just like my HRdlx was for me. My Egnater has gone over three years of pretty rough use without a hiccup after being gigged over 150 times and rehearsed at least twice a week. I mention what I use, but with Egnaters current QC problems, i can't really recommend them. It's a shame too because I really love the Rebel 20, But mine is an early production sample before they got so huge and lost control of their QC.
The difference is I've used Fender amps since 1966 and never had any serious issues with any of them until the Hrdlx. The amps I like the best are the ones I made myself! Sorry, but IMO and others too, the Blues Jr is a boxy sounding amp period. As you and your friends make fun of people who make fun of the Blues Jr, my friends many of them professionals and studio guys chuckle at people who think they sound great. They say if you can't hear it, then i guess it makes no difference what you play out of. That's how BillM makes some money, selling mods to fix the BJr. if you love them and they work for you it's all cool. My suggestion to the OP is to try out as many amps from as many different manufacturers as possible and decide for himself which is the best value for his hard earned bucks. Not to debate which amp is the bigger POS. My real suggestion is to build your own and never look back, you won't be sorry. The other part of the problem is they don't make tubes like they used to. And no Lou, many Fender purists will agree that an EL84 driven amp is not a Fender regardless of what badge is on it. They consider it blasphemy. As far as sweet tones, that's up to the individual. For me, i'll play out of a tin can and a string if I like the tone. Name brands mean nothing to me anymore.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:40 pm
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63supro wrote:
...Not to debate which amp is the bigger POS...


With the current lineup of so many modern amps by so many different manufactures, it would be nearly impossible to agree on which is the worst. :lol:

63supro wrote:
...many Fender purists will agree that an EL84 driven amp is not a Fender regardless of what badge is on it...


Well, Leo Fender made a version of the Tremolux with EL84s, so that's about as Fender as it gets. It seems that you all want it, but you can't have it both ways. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:55 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Well, Leo Fender made a version of the Tremolux with EL84s, so that's about as Fender as it gets.


Yeah......for about four months (less than 200 examples of that particular iteration).

That in and of itself speaks volumes.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:08 pm
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Good point about so few amps total, were made in the good old days compared to today.

How many Tremolux amps, all versions, do you reckon were made in Leo's day? A few hundred, a thousand? 8)

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:07 pm
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Hard to estimate. The Tremolux was never a popular model through all of its various incarnations (tweed combo, brownface and blackface piggyback). I'd be surprised if production topped 3000 for all versions.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:43 am
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Getting back to the Twin and the Blues JR.

I love amps. Always wish I had one more, but the Twin isn't one of them. Gross overkill for home use and way too heavy to transport plus unnecessary for the size venues I play. All of this has nothing to do with it's sound, which is great, but certainly NOT bluesy.

I've owned a Blues Jr. for around 10 years. After the honeymoon phase, I found it lacking (not BAD...just lacking) and it sat unused for probably 5 yrs. After trying unsuccessfully to try to sell it, I used it without its internal speaker to power one of my several 2X12 cabs. Major difference to my ears and now I use it in rotation. I even invested in a new head cab for its conversion. In retrospect, I doubt I'd buy a new one to use 'as is' (in all fairness, I haven't tried the III version though), and to buy one with intent to modify I see as too costly for the end result.

There are more suitable Fender amps than the twin or BJr. for the average person's uses, IMO........DRRI, PRRI, and probably the new 68 custom counterparts, BDRI, and Supersonic 22. Unfortunately, all of these cost more than $500 new. My suggestion would be to hold off until you can swing the extra $$$.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Blues Jr 3 vs Fender Twin Reverb
Posted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:45 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
Getting back to the Twin and the Blues JR.

I love amps. Always wish I had one more, but the Twin isn't one of them. Gross overkill for home use and way too heavy to transport plus unnecessary for the size venues I play. All of this has nothing to do with it's sound, which is great, but certainly NOT bluesy.

I've owned a Blues Jr. for around 10 years. After the honeymoon phase, I found it lacking (not BAD...just lacking) and it sat unused for probably 5 yrs. After trying unsuccessfully to try to sell it, I used it without its internal speaker to power one of my several 2X12 cabs. Major difference to my ears and now I use it in rotation. I even invested in a new head cab for its conversion. In retrospect, I doubt I'd buy a new one to use 'as is' (in all fairness, I haven't tried the III version though), and to buy one with intent to modify I see as too costly for the end result.

There are more suitable Fender amps than the twin or BJr. for the average person's uses, IMO........DRRI, PRRI, and probably the new 68 custom counterparts, BDRI, and Supersonic 22. Unfortunately, all of these cost more than $500 new. My suggestion would be to hold off until you can swing the extra $$$.


+1 But as far as the Twin not being good fir Blues, I'd have to disagree. All you need is a pedal. Even a boost will get you there. I've known many fine blues players who use Twins. I never used mine at home at all. I sold mine because I didn't play big venues or festivals anymore. They really don't have the big "rock clubs" that you used to see in the 70's and 80's. It was big fun while it lasted. In the Fender lineup, DRRI, Princeton even used would take the sting out of the new price.

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