It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:30 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:35 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm
Posts: 5
I would appreciate it if someone could provide me with the tube assignments for the super-sonic 60. Thanks!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:17 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:48 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Southern, CA
Which model are you talking about, the "Combo" or the "Head" ?

The "Head" has 8 tubes:
Pre Amp Tubes: Groove Tubes® - (5 x 12AX7), (1 x 12AT7)
Power Tubes: Groove Tubes® - (2 x 6L6)

The "Combo" has 10 tubes:
Pre Amp Tubes: Groove Tubes® - (6 x 12AX7), (2 x 12AT7)
Power Tubes: Groove Tubes® - (2 x 6L6)

The "Combo" has Reverb, the "Head" does not.

The schematics for both amps can be found here:

http://www.fender.com/support/articles/?category=amplifier-schematics&section=downloads

All this information is available on Fender.com. :D

Jerry

_________________
'62 Jazzmaster/'78 Precision Bass/'88 Fender F250 acoustic/'07 Gibson Less Paul Classic Antique/'12 Squier Strat/'14 Squier VM Jaguar/'15 Classic 60s Telecaster/'68 Showman Reverb/'70 Bandmaster Cabinet JBL D140F speakers/'69 Super Reverb/'12 G-DEC 3-30


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:24 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm
Posts: 5
By tube assignments I mean for instance, v1 operates... v2 operates... and so on. I neglected to specify it's a combo amp. Thanks for the help.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:49 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:48 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Southern, CA
O.K.

Sorry, then I won't be much more help. Hopefully one of the "amp" guys will follow-up with more useful information.

Jerry

_________________
'62 Jazzmaster/'78 Precision Bass/'88 Fender F250 acoustic/'07 Gibson Less Paul Classic Antique/'12 Squier Strat/'14 Squier VM Jaguar/'15 Classic 60s Telecaster/'68 Showman Reverb/'70 Bandmaster Cabinet JBL D140F speakers/'69 Super Reverb/'12 G-DEC 3-30


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:46 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Hi ngm,

This is already in a thread on this forum, try the search function in the future, but here it is again.

Each preamp/PI tube has two triodes in a single tube, each triode will be referred to as a "half".

V1 - 12AX7 First input stage, half for both channels, half for burn channel
V2 - 12AX7 Second and third stages for vintage channel only, both halves
V3 - 12AX7 Second and third stages for burn channel only, both halves
V4 - 12AX7 Half as a Cathode follower when not using the effects loop, same half used normally (not Cathode follower) when effects loop is switched on, as a gain stage going to second half of the same tube which is used as the effects driver (send) [both halves of V4 used for both channels]
V5 - 12AX7 Half for effects recovery (return), half for gain stage, both channels
V6 - 12AT7 Both halves for PI
V7, V8 - 6L6 Output tubes
V9 - 12AT7 Both halves for reverb driver
V10 - 12AX7 Both halves for reverb recovery

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:00 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks Shimmilou.That's exactly what I was looking for. I did try to run a search for the info but nothing came up so I must have used the wrong key word(s). What is the function of the PI?


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:27 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
ngm, welcome! :D

Phase inverter blurb:

http://www.300guitars.com/articles/arti ... -inverter/


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:00 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm
Posts: 5
Thanks for the link BMW. The end game to this info gathering is my attempt to figure out how to clean up the sound on my Super-sonic 60 combo. Can't get it over 2-3 without it getting blatty. Biased the 6L6's to 32mv,(they were at 19) and have been experimenting with different pre-amp tubes (JJ),s. It's getting a little better but we're not there yet. When I want to play clean I want to play clean and when I want to play dirty I want to play dirty. Any suggestions would be helpful. Beyond experimenting with tubes I know just enough to be dangerous and I'm not afraid to admit it. I bought the amp used on the net. I have the ss22 and I like the sound of these amps and the cascading gain. When I'm out gigging with the 22, I have to keep the clean sound down so far that I get buried in the stage volume. I thought by stepping up to the 60 watt version I'd be better off. If I can't get the amp sound to where I'm satisfied with it I'll take it to a buddy of mine who's a very good tech and let him dig deeper into it. I don't believe there's anything actually wrong with the amp, I just didn't realize that this is apparently an inherent characteristic of these amps.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:01 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
The stock GT tubes that come with your amp are usually pretty good for overall tone, maybe perfectly fine if you use pedals to get your tones, but sometimes you can really tune your sound with just a couple of changes in the tube lineup.

A few suggestions, and keep in mind that the possibilities are nearly endless, and taste varies, so you might have to experiment a little.

To keep the gain, with a nice clean balanced sound that also distorts well, try Tung Sol 12AX7, or a GT 12AX7-C (Chinese) is a bit warmer. JJ 12AX7 has decent clean, and can get really gritty when used for distortion, EH 12AX7 can be bright and articulate clean, and can be crispy/crunchy when used for distortion, a Preferred series 7025 (thetubestore.com) has a bit fuller/richer sound both clean and distorted. For less gain, a bit cleaner sound with a smoother distortion try a 5751. GE made some of the best 5751, and JJ 5751 are very good also. Since this is a combo, any long Plate tubes might not do well, as they sometimes rattle much sooner in a combo.

Try to tune one channel for better clean, like the vintage channel, and one channel for better distortion like the burn channel.

One possibility, a 5751 in V2 for the vintage channel, a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V3 for the burn channel. You might even be able to put a 5751 in V1 to smooth out both channels to start things off with a little less gain for a smoother overall sound, which can allow you to turn up the amp louder without getting as "blatty". You might even like a 5751 in V3 to tame the burn channel a little. I would keep a 12AT7 in the PI position, but you might like the sound of some other brand better.

If you don't use the effects loop, put a patch cable in there and when you switch the loop on, you will switch the first half of V4 from Cathode to Plate, and add the second half of V4, for a change in the sound. Adjust the send and return levels to taste.

I would get several different brands of preamp tubes and try a little tube rolling. Preamp and PI tubes are plug and play, just turn the amp off before swapping tubes.

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:06 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:31 pm
Posts: 5
I will continue to experiment. Thanks to all for the info and suggestions. In the end it will come down to getting it close at home and then actually taking it out and playing it on a job.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:13 pm
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 5:27 am
Posts: 396
Have you tried using both the bassman and vibrolux mode in the vintage channel? The difference is huge and vibrolux could clean up your sound. Vibrolux is also a bit quieter so make sure you set the volume levels of burn channel accordingly. The difference between the sound is also noticeable on the burn channel, but it's nowhere near as dramatic as the difference in vintage channel.

As is the case, the cleans on guitars with humbuckers won't sound as clean as the ones on guitars with single-coil magnets, so you gotta take that into account as well. The vintage channel does come across as a bit harsh when I am playing my Gibson LP with 2 Alnico V 'buckers in it, but is awesome for my Fender Strat with Alnico II single coils.

Like shimmilou mentioned, put in a patch cable in FX loop - that way you can get the natural distortion of tubes on vintage channel at acceptable volume levels (so you turn the levels of send & return down, while turning the channel volume up which will effectively crank the tubes hot and attenuate the power down - but IMHO you're better off just setting the burn channel as it's there to be used anyway and it sounds awesome), or you can use it as a volume booster for solos and stuff (turn the send & return levels up a bit, to your liking).

I think that if you spend enough time fiddling around with EQs, you can get the tone you want without changing tubes. But that's just me and I like the amp's tone as it is :)

_________________
Image
Gear: Gibson Les Paul Studio Limited WBCR (2 Burstbucker Pro PUPs)
Fender Stratocaster Highway One
'93 Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:28 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 11:48 am
Posts: 1
I realize this post is several years old but I just had my first Fender Supersonic 60 come into my shop (AMPMAN - NJ) - for "checkout & Retubing" last week. Before I get into the what I found to be great tubes for this very versatile (although a bit complicated) amp - there is a story that I really should start a new post for. The amp is owned by a working musician - Jimmy - who I also know and is a good friend - for the last 40 years. His 1965 Bandmaster head was one of the first amps that I worked on since opening up my Amp repair/restoration/customization & design business in the late 1990's - I have been working in Info Tech since the late 70's and started my career doing part time contracting repair work at the big recording studios in NYC (Hit factory, Record Plant. Electric Lady) - fixing everything from Mixing boards to speakers, tube amps, headphones and microphones... Also installed their first non-Telephone company - telephone switching system - & that's where my career headed and was built for the next 35 years.. So back to my "roots" now that I retired from IT... Glad to be out of the suit & tie..

So the SS 60 - was on its way to a "gig" Jim had with his band - he was driving an SUV when he was hit by another car head-on into the passenger side of his car causing it to flip and roll several times. When it finally stopped rolling (landed on the roof) - first thing after crawling out of the wreckage (like any musician worth his "salt") he checked out his equipment - guitar still in its case laying in backseat area was fine - but the Fender Amp was gone!! Onlookers ran over to the SUV and asked Jimmy if he was OK, did he need an ambulance?? He remembers asking "Did you see my amp? where's my amp!! Did any of you take it!! - Someone heard him and pointed down the road a piece in the middle of the street - a Blond Fender Supersonic Combo standing upright on its feet like someone just placed it there - surreal feelings sweep over Jimmy like this was some sort of weird dream.. He looked over at his SUV and noticed that the back hatch was open and figured the amp must have flew out the back from the impact and rolling - and somehow landed in the street on its feet!! - He ran over and picked up amp (now feeling some pain cause the damn amp weighs a ton to begin with but more likely due to his minor injuries getting banged around in the accident. He called up (cell phone still worked!!) his bandmates who were waiting at the club to start the gig & he said "guys - you need to start without me - he was never late so they asked where the heck r u? He told them about the accident and of course the gig was canceled & they rushed over to pick him up - get him checked out at local EMO & to secure his equipment from the wreckage- Jimmy was lucky just some bumps & scratches, guitar was fine, the amp - he noticed that most of the tubes and tube shields were laying on the bottom of the amp cabinet & the back panel that protects the tubes was split in the middle where the metal cage attaches to the panel and one of the 6L6's had lost its guide pin (was never found), 1 broken 12ax7 glass envelope- but the rest seemed fine except for some bent pins - he reassembled the amp (was sure to plug in 6L6 with missing guide pin correctly using the other one as a guide to line up pins to socket correctly. Gave the amp a careful visual inspection & all he found other than what was mentioned was some flattened corners & torn tolex where the amp must have rolled and bounced from corner to corner "head over heels" as they say. We'll he decided to plug her in (NOT RECOMMENED, BTW) - he let amp warmup in standby and then threw the standby to play. First thing is the pilot light was not lit - he was about to pack it in when he noticed the usual glow from the tubes - hmmmmm - so he plugged in his guitar and stated to play..... There was some background noise but the thing worked... unbelievable - he went to local guitar store and picked up a replacement pilot lamp & that fixed that...

I ran into Jimmy at a 3 day "Hunter Mountain, NY" Gig a few months after the accident and he was using the amp. I convinced him (without much hesitation) to take the amp back to my shop to do deep dive inspection - to ensure that there weren't any hidden issues or a major failure waiting to happen.. The 2009 Fender Supersonic 60 Combo had the original tubes (he bought it second hand) - so they were 10 years old anyway & this was his "go-to" gigging amp (he has owned many new and vintage amps - and this model he claims is the most versatile amp he has ever owned (Classic Rock - lead & Rhythm guitar - mostly single coil "Fender style" guitars but also uses humbuckers on occasion). The 10 tube amp had all JJ brand tubes except for one 12AX7 (the one that broke in the accident) was replaced with a vintage tube he pulled from his 1965 Bandmaster head - that I restored back in 2000/2001.

First thing I did was carefully inspect every connection (dozens of spade type push on connectors, interconnecting ribbon cables between PCBs and hardwired - thank God - ceramic tube sockets - etc..). I checked all voltages and PCBs for cracks, bad/loose/burnt solder connections - and found only one problem - the 6.3V AC filament supply (fused output on PCB with ceramic body 10A fuse) was reading about 5.8V to 6.0V depending on where in the "series/parallel" twisted pair 18 AWG(?) stranded filament supply the meter was connected (looped from tube socket to tube socket - so if placed on 1st socket closest to supply voltage was slightly higher than at end of loop - tube #10. This should be done with power on and tubes installed to note the voltage drop - 11 tubes draw a lot of current - much more than standard Fender amp - and if the supply was fused at 10A - the continuous current draw is typically 80% of fuse rating- or multiply average current draw by 1.25 to determine fuse size or divide known circuit fuse rating by 1.25 to estimate load current draw. The filament supply from the transformer (governed by the thickness/gauge/AWG of the wire used inside the power transformer to provide the current needed by the circuit load - in this case - the number/type of tubes) had to be near 2 x the fuse rating (15 min to 20 Amp filament supply from transformer!!! which is 3 to 4 times the normal Fender amp power rating for filaments) probably WAS NOT the problem here - as it may be on vintage amps that used undersized power supplies - e.g. original Fender Tweed Deluxe - most come in with fried power transformers.. In this case the P/S xfmer was plenty big & beefy - so it must be something from the accident - most likely a loose connection from the 6.3 winding to the tube sockets & pilot lamp. Turned out that the heavy duty spade lug "push spring connections" from winding to PCA with filament 10A fuse were loose - could be the wire to spade crimps, loose spring tension in female spades or the male spade soldered to the board could have come loose via bad/broken solder joint. Finally that 10amp fuse holder is very flimsy considering its passing the highest current in the entire amp (approx 8 amps @ 6.3VAC) - IMHO - this fuse should NOT be soldered to a printed circuit board with an "exposed" fuse clip that uses thin metal spring memory clips to hold it in place. This should be like the mains fuse - a serious screw cap fuse holder mounted to the chassis in back of the amp ($1.25 vs $0.50 Retail cost difference between 2 fuse holder types....hmmm). Apparently this is a relatively common problem with these amps - from loose connections that cause intermittent problems (I love guys who punch top of amp and claim "they fixed it" and the rest of the forum either congratulate or come up with the craziest "try this or don't do that" suggestions..) But.. if u ever run into a "dead amp" problem, no tubes light up - then magically it works after some series of movements - like " I rotated amp in clockwise direction 3 times and that fixed the problem" - then you have a loose filament fuse or connection to PCB. The proper permanent fix to be done by someone who is qualified is to bypass old fuse holder with a heavy duty 20A/ 125VAC in line or chassis mounted fuse holder (chassis mounted are more available at 125VAC / 20AMP rating than in-line which are typically geared to automotive 12VDC / 20Amp - YOU CANNOT USE A DC FUSE HOLDER IN AN AC CIRCUIT. Of course chassis mount would require drilling a mounting hole and running some wire - the old fuse holder on the board can be left there and ignored since it will be bypassed.
Other than this filament voltage issue which in his amp turned out to be the filament voltage feed from the transformer spade lugs were loose connecting to the PCB and had to be squeezed down so they were a tighter fit on the male spade tips soldered to the PCB that connect to the in-line fuse holder 10AMP fuse. The voltage then returned to the 6.8VAC that it should be at all tube sockets and pilot light.

Figuring out with preamp tubes are for what is very difficult in the amp - is there a picture/drawing/tube chart that shows the 8 preamp tubes (5 in front, 3 in back with 6L6s) - with their designations even just the V1, V2 etc... unless it is stamped or printed somewhere on the chassis itself that I didn't see - I have read 3 different explanations - where is V1??? in the front row of 5 preamp tubes?? which one is V1 looking at amp from the rear (looking at the speaker jacks) is is on left or right? - what are the tube designations for the 3 preamp tubes leading up to the 6L6s on the rear of the chassis - there is a 12ax7 on left, a 12ax7 next moving right than a 12AT7 right before the 1st 6L6 than the 2 output tubes.

I thought that the rear set of tubes, left to right were as follow - V1 (first preamp tube), V2 (second preamp tube) V3 (12AT7 - Phase Inverter) and then the 2 6L6s - like every single other Fender amp ever made in history - now I am told that V1/V2 and Phase inverter are in the row of 5 preamp tubes - and the 12AT7 right next to the 2 - 6L6s is the Reverb Driver?? that is crazy if it is true..

Can someone tell me if these tubes are labled anywhere on the chassis or if there is a photo of a tube chart that typically is stuck on inside the combo cab near the speaker

Thanks
Chris


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Super-Sonic 60 tube assignments
Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:43 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:21 am
Posts: 1
chriscolt wrote:
Can someone tell me if these tubes are labled anywhere on the chassis or if there is a photo of a tube chart that typically is stuck on inside the combo cab near the speaker?

Thanks
Chris


Hi Chris,

I discovered your answer/question (and this topic btw) by looking for solution with my combo which was stucked. Anyway, I'm not an expert and can't answer to all your questions but this one is easy so yes, there is information in the chassis and here is a photo of mine! Maybe you will never consult this post again but maybe it will be helpful for other guys.

John

Image


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TimsAudio and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: