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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:11 pm
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earresponsible wrote:
All tubes replaced...no difference! Might as well sell it for parts, shouldn't sell to someone without warning them, wouldn't be honest.
Good luck!


Ummm, maybe you should consider contacting Fender consumer relations:

(480) 596-7195

consumerrelations@fender.com

Even better, PM Rob Schwarz

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=220539

He runs the place.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:56 am
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Aspiring Musician
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Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:44 pm
Posts: 366
bluesky636 wrote:
earresponsible wrote:
All tubes replaced...no difference! Might as well sell it for parts, shouldn't sell to someone without warning them, wouldn't be honest.
Good luck!


Ummm, maybe you should consider contacting Fender consumer relations:

(480) 596-7195

consumerrelations@fender.com

Even better, PM Rob Schwarz

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=220539

He runs the place.


+1

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If it aint' broke,...don't fix it! I like to keep my amps and guitars factory original,...no mods necessary,...don't want them,...don't need them!

My gear as of now;
Standard Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe III amp
Champion 20 amp
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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:05 am
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 7:40 am
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Updates
All 5 tubes preamp and power amp has been changed to jj tubes, after the power tube changed, the noise disappear in the first 15 minutes and appear again after playing around 15 mins,the symptom is similar, noise only occuries while i was playing low frequency note, but while the noise hum, i gentle move the power tube and the noise seems disappear for a while and appear again, while there are noise, i saw the powertube got a blue spark, i have search for the net, it seems that the noise happen because of bad connnection of the tube


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:04 am
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steven0101hk wrote:
Updates
The noise disappear in the first 15 minutes and appear again after playing around 15 mins, the symptom is similar, noise only occuries while i was playing low frequency note, but while the noise hum, i gentle move the power tube and the noise seems disappear for a while and appear again, while there are noise, i saw the powertube got a blue spark, i have search for the net, it seems that the noise happen because of bad connnection of the tube


Clean the sockets & tube pins with good contact cleaner. I use Deoxit DN-5 or GN-5. Work the tubes in-&-out of the sockets a couple of times. This should help the situation.

If not, you may have a more serious issue, such as some poor solder points on the circuit board. Or even instabilities in the amp's circuitry.


Good luck!


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:40 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
steven0101hk wrote:
Updates
The noise disappear in the first 15 minutes and appear again after playing around 15 mins, the symptom is similar, noise only occuries while i was playing low frequency note, but while the noise hum, i gentle move the power tube and the noise seems disappear for a while and appear again, while there are noise, i saw the powertube got a blue spark, i have search for the net, it seems that the noise happen because of bad connnection of the tube


Clean the sockets & tube pins with good contact cleaner. I use Deoxit DN-5 or GN-5. Work the tubes in-&-out of the sockets a couple of times. This should help the situation.

If not, you may have a more serious issue, such as some poor solder points on the circuit board. Or even instabilities in the amp's circuitry.


Good luck!


I have been searching the "vibration tube noise" and something is found.


http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=58307

'It's vibrating at certain frequences - like if I play frets 5-8 on the G string, especially with the neck pickup of any guitar, the noise will be at it's worst. I pushed firmly but gently upwards on the power tubes while it was vibrating and they seem to be the source of it as that stopped 80% of the noise.'

This is almost exactly the same as my case!
anyone has this experience before??
New assumption: noise happen due to tube gets hot and expand its dimension which cause bad contact and cause noise during certain low frequency

I am still trouble shooting, I hope this post can help someone in the future


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 6:23 pm
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Not an expert, but that sounds to me like a bad socket. I wouldn't throw away an $800 amp due to a $5 bad part. Also since it's not the tube, but the socket, wouldn't that be covered under the 5 year Fender warranty?

If one of the power tube pins is arcing you should be able to pull the tube and see a discoloration on one of the pins (I would bet it's the plate voltage). Remember that tubes are getting several hundred DC volts via that pin so they are much more likely to arc than other kinds of socketed components. Once you get a bad socket like that, it's kaput and needs to be replaced (since the internal pin wiper is now corroded), you can't fix it with contact cleaner.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:18 am
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I agree about not throwing away an $800 amp over a $5 dollar part.
Careful touching things with amp on... especially arcing things!
The problem does sound as though it is a intermittent lack of electrical conduction. Very much likely to thermal expansion and tge additional vibration of the sound pressure waves. You can blame Fender for building a P.O.S. amp all ya want but the fact is that most any modern tube amps these days have these same inherrent problems.
Trouble is that we have a perfect storm. Modern electronic production design is based on the computer generated modeling and design programs that generate very efficient and properly routed circuitry that is output into a very consistient type of graphics file to create the first weak link... the circuit board. Modern circuit boards are a requirement for the miraculous and inexpensive wonder-electronics that we have today. Look what you get and what you pay for it compared to what they had back in the 50's or 60's ! With inflation you'd be paying way more for a failure prone mechanical tuner B/W TV than what ya pay for a more reliable solid state and LED TV with 100s more digital channels and remote control that doesnt overheat the room and doesnt waste energy.
Now we are building old technology tubes using modern day components. Circuit boards dont do so well with the heat generated by tubes and certainly the high currents flowing thru a piece of foil thats only a few hundreds of a mil thick? These have been a problem with boards for some time, but we are really becoming succeptable in the recent few generations of tube amps and their failure rate is definately showing a trend due to the introduction of lead free ROHS compliant components and lead free soldering techniques that have been mandated for several years. The lead free alternatives definately arent cut out for the high heat, the high currents and added vibrations. It is much more brittle and requires higher temps at much shorter duration to get a proper flowing solder joint. Production methods have not fully addressed the inadquacies of their techniques. Many repair techs seldom know that there is a problem when they look over a board and especially when trying to resolder or reflow and rework solder joints. Specifically, you should never ever contaminate a leadfree solder joint with leaded solder, and proper techs make sure that they have solder station dedicated to leadfree and another for lead only! You can actually do more harm to the integrity of the metallurgy of the board reflowing the joints with a iron tip that once was used on lead. Has anyone even noticed that rhey have to use more temp or that they are going through soldering iron tips more often or the tips just dont tin like they used to? Leadfree solder is a problem with circuitboard tube amps. The final problem is modern circuitry isnt really designed as serviceable but rather with a expected service life. Its rather disposable as newer technology obsoletes its usefulness before its lifespan is up. Tube technology requires maintainence and service that modern reliable electronics built of circuitboards dont.
That amp needs some serious time spent on going through the boards and components. Likely it is a few bad joints and probably that new arc'd tube isnt helping. I think that I'd also check for ac on the power supply too as those caps might be failing.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:47 am
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southbound suarez wrote:
...Likely it is a few bad joints...


The most likely, in fact. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:22 am
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shimmilou wrote:
southbound suarez wrote:
...Likely it is a few bad joints...


The most likely, in fact. :wink:
:lol: :lol: :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Fender Hotrod deluxe noise problem [help]
Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:59 pm
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RoHS-compliant solder......gotta love it.

NOT!

:evil:

Arjay

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