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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:25 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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Retroverbial wrote:
DarkPenguin wrote:
Hasn't it already been 50 years since they made an amp you liked?


Dunno. At least 35 I'd reckon. Whenever the last of the old-school engineers that knew WTF they were doing either tossed in the towel and quit or were forced into retirement. I think Ed Jahns was the last of them. That was around '82 or so. Guys like that are why amps like mine are still around -- they built them to last.

Arjay


You might like this, then...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjuJ-EOWXuI

Amps, and he loves fenders, are towards the end.


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:40 pm
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Yeah, his puts my modest collection to shame......

Image

Someday I hope to find something decent in tweed.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:08 pm
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Oh, my. Nice!


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
And when they've finally cashed in all the respect that the original founder's products once commanded for their durability, reliability, simplicity of repair, and ergonometric ease they'll be just another has-been corporation who forgot WTF they got into the business for in the first place.


The current Fender strategy makes sense. Keep making amps at all price points and don't cede any segments to other manufacturers. If Fender didn't make the Vaporizer someone else would. Companies like Danelectro, Kustom, VHT, G&L... pretty much anyone can call up China and have them start cranking out units. I don't regard it as dragging the Fender name through the muck as much as it is just a sound business strategy and a way to capture a diverse customer base.


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:16 am
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Fender has always tried to cater to a wider customer base--even in Leo's day.

Some of those attempts succeeded quite well, some were complete & utter failures, and most were somewhere in between.

I'll leave it up to you to decide which was which--but all three happened in Leo's day and all three have happened since.

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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:49 am
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zontar, Just curious, not trying to start an argument, but which Fender amps in history were a "complete & utter failures." At least in the history of Fender tube amps.

I'm not up with all of Fender's products. Just those that get a lot of press, due to desirability.

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:36 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
zontar, Just curious, not trying to start an argument, but which Fender amps in history were a "complete & utter failures." At least in the history of Fender tube amps.


None of the tube models designed by Leo.

The only amps I can think of that cratered from the day they were released were the first-generation solid-state amps and the follow-on "Zodiac" line.

And Leo FENDER had absolutely nothing to do with them.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:40 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
The only amps I can think of that cratered from the day they were released were the first-generation solid-state amps and the follow-on "Zodiac" line.


I don't think the H.O.T./R.A.D./J.A.M. ones did too well either.

But at least they weren't generic Chinese amps.


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:50 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Vintage Fender amp, still in use over 50 years later:

Image

Modern Fender amp bound for the trash heap in 50 months:

Image

I'd take the 50 year old amp over that damn Vaporizer toy any day of the week!

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If it aint' broke,...don't fix it! I like to keep my amps and guitars factory original,...no mods necessary,...don't want them,...don't need them!

My gear as of now;
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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:01 am
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63supro wrote:
Archtop Bill wrote:
[quote=...name it and I understand it's to attract more customers, but building mediocre sounding amps that will be in a landfill in a few years only makes ticked off customers. Look at it this way, that amp is four bills out the door. How much of that is sheer profit? Two cheap speakers, a real simple circuit, a cheesy stamped chassis, some of the cheapest components on the market and probably built in China or Mexico to boot.

What would've been cool would be to take a 65 Champ amp, hand wire it on turret board and put it in a funky cab with two ten's. Keep it around $500-600 and I'd be all over it. Build it in Mexico or Mars I don't care. VHT builds hand wired stuff in Korea. It's inexpensive and sounds great. I run my 74 Champ through two 1x12 closed back Egnater cabs and it's as mean as it gets. Loud enough for small gigs too. I use a Weber Z-Matcher for impedance matching. Throw a little clean boost on that bad boy and it's all over.


Great idea: and add one thing to it that the Vaporizer is missing: The Fender logo.



Because it doesn't deserve it. :wink:[/quote]


Amen to that,...it's not worthy of the Fender logo! So yeah,...+1,000!

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If it aint' broke,...don't fix it! I like to keep my amps and guitars factory original,...no mods necessary,...don't want them,...don't need them!

My gear as of now;
Standard Strat
Hot Rod Deluxe III amp
Champion 20 amp
'59 Bassman LTD Reissue


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:21 pm
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Wayne2 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
And when they've finally cashed in all the respect that the original founder's products once commanded for their durability, reliability, simplicity of repair, and ergonometric ease they'll be just another has-been corporation who forgot WTF they got into the business for in the first place.


The current Fender strategy makes sense. Keep making amps at all price points and don't cede any segments to other manufacturers. If Fender didn't make the Vaporizer someone else would. Companies like Danelectro, Kustom, VHT, G&L... pretty much anyone can call up China and have them start cranking out units. I don't regard it as dragging the Fender name through the muck as much as it is just a sound business strategy and a way to capture a diverse customer base.


Sorry, but as a business owner, I wouldn't follow that model at all and no, it doesn't make any sense. I will never provide a low price inferior product. It's too much work. Low ball customers are really picky and complain about everything. I have people and some businesses tell me my services are too expensive, I just explain what my costs are to survive and what is required to provide quality work. I'd rather do one, one thousand dollar job than fifty twenty dollar jobs. I will never provide a low price inferior product.

There are plenty of cheap Chinese amps on the market. I was a LOYAL Fender amp customer since 1966, and because of the turn it has taken, I'll never buy another new Fender amp. Back then, Fender was the standard of quality and durability, now it's abandoned everything that was great about it. Fender almost fell into the dumper more than once and a lot of it was manufacturing shortcuts and shoddy workmanship. The pride in workmanship is gone and has been replaced by cheap labor and high profits. Even the high end amps are using spade connectors. I'd rather have a nice soldered joint than a spade connector any day of the week, and a grand for a 5F1 Champ? :lol: Makes no sense to me and they won't vaporizing any of my hard earned money. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 1:40 pm
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ok, it has become a don't buy any thing cheap because it probably sux topic! I get it, I am a stupid guy for not speding 1200 on a vintage Princeton? or 4000 on some super rare fender that everyone already has! sorry guys I know I suck too!

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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:03 pm
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No Greg it's not that at all. Nobody called you stupid. Buy what you like and what suits your needs, it's your decision. Some of us are just disappointed in what this American icon has become. We were naive enough to think Fender would keep building these hand wired incredible amps. It's just progress I guess. I don't own a single seriously expensive amp. One amp I built was only two hundred bucks and I love that amp. It's only 5 watts, true point to point construction and only has a tiny bit of headroom. It's great for the music I play. I have other tiny one and two watt solid state and hybrid amps that I made for under twenty five dollars and one resides in an old suitcase with an 8" speaker and love them as well. Doesn't make either one of us stupid. :wink: But I won't pretend any of them are glorious tone machines, except maybe my Tweed Deluxe clone. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:05 pm
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63supro wrote:
Some of us are just disappointed in what this American icon has become.


+1000000

:(

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Vaporizer?
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:42 pm
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63supro wrote:
Sorry, but as a business owner, I wouldn't follow that model at all and no, it doesn't make any sense. I will never provide a low price inferior product. It's too much work. Low ball customers are really picky and complain about everything. I have people and some businesses tell me my services are too expensive, I just explain what my costs are to survive and what is required to provide quality work. I'd rather do one, one thousand dollar job than fifty twenty dollar jobs. I will never provide a low price inferior product.


That seems to be the direction a lot of people are moving. Too many people chasing easy dollars, catering to the wealthy and leaving customers with tight budgets out in the cold. In my business it's what all the so-called experts tell you, what you read in the trade journals all the time. "Raise your fees!" "Charge what you're worth!"

It works for a while, I guess, and I do see people doing well with it. However, you have to come to terms with the reality that a larger proportion of the community will be underserved because of it.


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