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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:00 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I WANNA KNOW WHAT CHORD LARRY'S PLAYIN'!!!!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:37 pm
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upnorth wrote:
I WANNA KNOW WHAT CHORD LARRY'S PLAYIN'!!!!!!!!


Gm7dim#3rdninth combined with a Dflat power chord.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:57 pm
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Just to confirm what everybody has been saying re: stretching the springs in a reverb tank...

The springs are attached to a THIN wire with the magnetic bead, via an eyehook. This bead sits inside of the transducer's laminations. So pulling on the springs risks breaking this thin wire... just like the photo.



Ends of springs going into transducer:

Image


Endpiece with one broken lead:

Image


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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:26 am
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How to stretch your reverb tank springs:

Image

When finished you get this:

Image

Me enjoying the new sound of my reverb tank:

Image

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:43 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Me enjoying the new sound of my reverb tank:

Image


You've put on a few pounds, Bill!

:wink:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:20 am
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Relic G Man wrote:
63supro wrote:
Relic G Man wrote:
Here's something that worked for me that you can try, take the reverb tank out and work the springs back and forth several times, stretching them in this way breaks them in and prepares them for use.


Stupidest thing I have ever heard. :roll:



Never broke any springs, just telling you it work for me.


It's a pity we lost some threads, as recently I had posted all about how the reverb tank feedback can be fixed by adjusting the magnetic beads within the tank, and I took a lot of flak and had a large amount of convincing to do before the GURUS on here actually realized I wasn't talking sh1t.

Now firstly, it is a really bad idea to stretch the springs. The only reason it worked for you is because the springs are attached to little magnetic beads which float between a transducer on each end, and your actions of spring stretching would have rotated and centralized these beads reducing their feedback sensitivity. In future instead of stretching your springs, try just rotating/rolling them, as stretching will most definitely break it eventually, if not immediately.

Without going too far into how reverb tanks operate, those small magnetic beads are magnetized from left to right, and not top to bottom like conventional magnets. Thus their rotational angle plays a big part in the tanks sensitivity, together with their position inside the transducer laminations.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:50 am
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I think BMW2002Ti has had the last word on why simply stretching the springs is a bad idea. Relic G Man got lucky.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:55 am
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+1 :wink:

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:19 am
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AaronK wrote:
...recently I had posted all about how the reverb tank feedback can be fixed by adjusting the magnetic beads within the tank...


Those beads are not supposed to move in relation to the part of the transducer in which they should be affixed. The fact that yours were loose means that the transducers are broken, and should be repaired or replaced. You really only temporarily "fixed" them by putting them back into position. In your case, it might be possible to glue them to prevent them from coming loose again, but they should be away from the laminated metal part so that they can move, as part of the transducer to which they are supposed to be affixed, within the magnetic field, side to side, not loose from end to end as yours were.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:09 am
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shimmilou wrote:
AaronK wrote:
...recently I had posted all about how the reverb tank feedback can be fixed by adjusting the magnetic beads within the tank...


Those beads are not supposed to move in relation to the part of the transducer in which they should be affixed. The fact that yours were loose means that the transducers are broken, and should be repaired or replaced. You really only temporarily "fixed" them by putting them back into position. In your case, it might be possible to glue them to prevent them from coming loose again, but they should be away from the laminated metal part so that they can move, as part of the transducer to which they are supposed to be affixed, within the magnetic field, side to side, not loose from end to end as yours were.


After closely examining the reverb tank in my Frontman 25R, I have to agree with shimmilou.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:27 am
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Exactly. My take on the thing is...

The bead is a permanent magnet and the transducer is like a voice coil. The input transducer acts like a very small speaker and the output a small pickup. Coupled by the spring and its natural time constant. The input transducer sets up AC motion & tension in the springs. Like a VC sets up waves onto the speaker's cone. The frequency of the reverb is mid-to-high. With most low frequency filtered out (500 pico-farad cap in schematic) . As mid-to-high is the range reverb tones are most effective.

The 12AT7 & reverb tranny amplifies and converts the input signal to lower impedance/more current --- to drive the input transducer. Just like the output stage & tranny drives the speakers.

One-half of the 7025 recovers the signal from the pickup transducer. Amplifies and helps match impedance of the recovered or pickup signal from the tank --- before being fed back & mixed (via pot) into the gain stage.

So the beads should not physically move much --- except to induce wave motion & tension in the springs. Or something like that... :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:39 am
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shimmilou wrote:
AaronK wrote:
...recently I had posted all about how the reverb tank feedback can be fixed by adjusting the magnetic beads within the tank...


Those beads are not supposed to move in relation to the part of the transducer in which they should be affixed. The fact that yours were loose means that the transducers are broken, and should be repaired or replaced. You really only temporarily "fixed" them by putting them back into position. In your case, it might be possible to glue them to prevent them from coming loose again, but they should be away from the laminated metal part so that they can move, as part of the transducer to which they are supposed to be affixed, within the magnetic field, side to side, not loose from end to end as yours were.


They are not loose Shimmi, but those copper slugs that the wire holding the beads is soldered to can be rotated (without affecting tension) thus affecting the beads magnetic field alignment to the transducer. Please don't make me explain myself again as these guys made a fool of themselves once already.

And by the way that is the method how Accutronics set them up in the factory.

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Last edited by AaronK on Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:40 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
I think BMW2002Ti has had the last word on why simply stretching the springs is a bad idea. Relic G Man got lucky.


Agree but an explanation as to why his foolish actions got him the desired affect might be more constructive to him not attempting that again.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:14 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Exactly. My take on the thing is...

The bead is a permanent magnet and the transducer is like a voice coil. The input transducer acts like a very small speaker and the output a small pickup. Coupled by the spring and its natural time constant. The input transducer sets up AC motion & tension in the springs. Like a VC sets up waves onto the speaker's cone. The frequency of the reverb is mid-to-high. With most low frequency filtered out (500 pico-farad cap in schematic) . As mid-to-high is the range reverb tones are most effective.

The 12AT7 & reverb tranny amplifies and converts the input signal to lower impedance/more current --- to drive the input transducer. Just like the output stage & tranny drives the speakers.

One-half of the 7025 recovers the signal from the pickup transducer. Amplifies and helps match impedance of the recovered or pickup signal from the tank --- before being fed back & mixed (via pot) into the gain stage.

So the beads should not physically move much --- except to induce wave motion & tension in the springs. Or something like that... :lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf


To add to this, the bead is rotated by the source transducer. It is not vibrated up and down like wave motion. That is why the coupling hooks to the spring are soldered or glued, so that the spring rotates back and forth in relation to the bead.That is why the shape of the magnetic field on the bead is important, and it's alignment inside the transducer lamination too. The fact that the transducers create and sense rotational movement of the beads primarily, is what helps the reverb tank suppress external noise that would generally be caused by wave like vertical and horizontal movements on the springs from external sources. Without this the reverb would sound like a mushy mess.

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Post subject: Re: New DRRI Issues
Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:30 pm
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AaronK, correct. Like small compression and rarefaction of the spring wrt the input signal. Rarefaction --- bet you never thought you'd see this word in a Fender Forum --- :lol: :lol: :lol:

Time delay is a function of spring constants. Truly analog device. Not easily copied with digital circuits.


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