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Post subject: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:09 pm
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Hi! I just purchased a Fender Supersonic 22w head w/ footswitch. When switching from the overdrive channel back to the clean channel, there is a slight (but very noticeable) pause where everything just goes silent.

From everything I've seen, it is a feature on some amps meant to protect it from pops, etc. My question is, is there a way to disable it without having some electronics whiz open it up and start modifying it? On some amps/footswitches you can press a combination of buttons to do this.

This amp is phenomenal! Aside from this issue and the unreliable reverb, it's perfect for me. I'd love to get this sorted out if anyone has any tips.


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:40 pm
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khaotix wrote:
This amp is phenomenal! Aside from this issue and the unreliable reverb, it's perfect for me.


:roll:

Are you familiar with the word "dichotomy"?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:42 pm
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khaotix wrote:
...is there a way to disable it without having some electronics whiz open it up and start modifying it?...


No

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:46 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
khaotix wrote:
This amp is phenomenal! Aside from this issue and the unreliable reverb, it's perfect for me.


:roll:

Are you familiar with the word "dichotomy"?

Arjay


Yep. A good majority of my tones come from my arsenal of pedals. So amp reverb/channels definitely don't make it a deal-breaker for me. Thus it's "perfect for me". Being that this amp has such a great overdrive section however, I'd love to get it working properly if at all possible. Cheers! :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:00 pm
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I have no experience with the SS 22, but I have an original SS 60 combo and it has no delay when switching channels. Might be an issue with your particular amp. Maybe go try another one at a music store and see if it has the same issue.


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:52 pm
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gecko_tx wrote:
I have no experience with the SS 22, but I have an original SS 60 combo and it has no delay when switching channels. Might be an issue with your particular amp. Maybe go try another one at a music store and see if it has the same issue.

I have a SS22 and I've never noticed such with mine. Have it checked out by the nearest authorized warranty repair center near you if you test another and find it to be OK.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:40 pm
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khaotix wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
khaotix wrote:
This amp is phenomenal! Aside from this issue and the unreliable reverb, it's perfect for me.


:roll:

Are you familiar with the word "dichotomy"?

Arjay


Yep. A good majority of my tones come from my arsenal of pedals. So amp reverb/channels definitely don't make it a deal-breaker for me. Thus it's "perfect for me". Being that this amp has such a great overdrive section however, I'd love to get it working properly if at all possible. Cheers! :wink:


That makes as much sense as buying a brand-new premium-priced car whose rear-seat upholstery is trashed and whose spare tire is missing on the ludicrous premise that you don't sit back there and you've never had a flat.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:29 pm
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And again we see tube amp privilege. It's like female privilege in our society.

When the Mustang 1 v1, which retailed for $99.00, had a 0.006 second delay when using the footswitch to change channels, people were up in arms. Everyone wrote their mayor, local councilwoman, congresswoman at the state and federal level, and senator angry letters, and there were riots in 37 of the US states until Fender released a firmware update that solved the problem. Fender was trashed up and down this website for months because the $99 (ninety-nine dollars) Mustang was not perfect.

lzozlzolzozlzol

But if it's a $1,000 tube amp, a delay of a few seconds is A okay.

(If there is *any* delay when switching from clean to dirty or vice versa, the amp is un-usable to play Nirvana type songs, and everyone complains that Nirvana songs are so basic. Imagine trying to use such an amp to play a song by The Who!?!??? wow)


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:59 pm
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Latency is common in the SS computer-based modelers. I had a Peavey Vypyr for a while and when you're unaccustomed to it, it's annoying. I've never experienced it in tube amps nor the non-computer based SS amps. Maybe it exists, but I've not run into it.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:16 am
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There should be NO DELAY/PAUSE IN SOUND when switching on an SS, and there should definately be SOME SMALL relay static when switching. The SS22 uses relays to switch, and relays are impossible to keep in MID CHANGEOVER to cause a PAUSE IN SOUND. Relays are iether on or off.

The SS22 does however use two muting FETS, one on iether side of V4B, to mute the instrument signal obviously while switching channels, to try and kill the POP. The length of time this mute occurs is based on the VINTAGE/BURN relay-triggering OP-AMP and the size capacitor C79 & C98 on both FETS Gates. So the mute pulse length is basically determined by the size of the capacitors. BIGGER capacitors yield longer mute and visa versa.

It is not a simple fix, as you would have to open the chassis to find the componets and de-solder and remove or replace. I know I would give it a go and experiment, but what you do is up to you.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:17 am
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It is impossible to have "no delay" when using a mechanical relay for switching in an amplifier. There is a physical movement in mechanical relays that takes a certain amount of time to move. The figure of .006 seconds (6 mS) mentioned above is quite fast. A muting circuit can be used to prevent the pop heard when using a mechanical relay for switching. Yes, there is an "in-between" position in a mechanical relay, as most are a "break before make" type relay. If you want "no delay" you must use solid state relay or transistor for switching, and even then there will be microseconds of delay, which will seem virtually instant, or like no delay to almost everyone. Of course if solid state switching was used some would complain anyway, saying that the signal was compromised somehow. Pick your poison, there is no such thing as perfect switching, that is just the way it goes. Don't like it? Use a single channel amp and no pedals and you might be happy. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:57 am
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Hi Shimmi, I was talking ear measurments NOT oscilloscope measurements, so where the OP is concerned there should be no noticeable audible delay/cut of guitar signal from the REALAYS when swtching. :D

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Last edited by AaronK on Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:14 am
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An interesting FACT: I see the MUTE FET circuit is in place but but not used for channel switching on my SSTwin. I wonder what makes the difference, or is it a JUST IN CASE provision.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:34 am
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Yeah, I wondered how anyone measured the delay, but I'm told that it is obvious when recording, it can be seen using the software. I can notice a very slight delay, but adjust my timing to get it to switch at the right time, not that much of a problem really.

I see the mute circuit in the SS Twin, but don't see where it connects to do the muting, although I believe that it must be used. If it isn't used, you would probably get a pop sound when switching.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 22w - Channel Switching Issue...
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:55 am
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The MUTE circuit is used in the SSTwin, one after the Summing Amplification Valve for REVERB and one at the PHASE INVERTER circuit. However the Channel switching trigger is not connected to it, so it does not mute when switching channels (according to the circuit diagram). Where I think the mute circuit comes into play is on switching from STANDBY to ON. That is what I can deduct from the schematic.

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