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Post subject: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 7:38 pm
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I got the new '68 Deluxe Reverb and found it had a lot of background noise (compared to my '65 DRRI), had a very loud tremolo 'ticking' noise, and had discolored patches on the top of the amp. I returned it for a new one and found the new one had the same noise level and the same tremolo ticking along with a lot of reverb feedback and even more noticeable discolored patches on the top of the amp. Anyone else finding this? Are these just problems with the first batch of this amp, or will they all be like this? Too bad; aside from this stuff, it is a great sounding amp!


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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:20 pm
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I had a loud ticking in the tremolo circuit of an old Silverface Vibrolux Reverb about 10 years back. Took it to several so-called techs who charged me significant sums of money to look at it but never found the problem ... and obviously also never fixed it. Then I found my current tech and for $25 he solved it in 10 minutes with a zip tie and a piece of tape. Turned out to be some wires that needed re-routing. Interferance issue.

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:35 pm
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Is there some compelling reason why you didn't test-drive the replacement amp before leaving the store with it?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:13 am
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Redfarfisa, does this amp have circuit boards? The tremolo ticking seems to be an issue with certain DRRI. Which Fender "fixed" by going to a separate mini-board to hold the opto-roach and components tied to its function.

I have read that the opto-roach setup on certain circuit boards have issues with coupling to other sections, Leading to that motorboat-like ticking sound. As stated, re-routing wires (to minimize RF coupling), resoldering socket pins and board components, even adding a de-coupling resistor are used to stop this effect.

From RG Keen's site:

Fixing the "Ticking" in Fender Tremolo circuits

This is from the great electronics guru R. G. Keen. For an astonishing amount of information about tube amps and guitar effects check out his website, geofex.com.

• Fiberboard contamination: Dust, dirt, and junk can let the LFO signal leak into the audio path. Vacuum the dust and dirt away, and if it still persists, remelt the wax top and bottom with a hair dryer.

• Solder blobs from eyelets touching insulating board: Sometimes excess solder drips out the bottom of an eyelet and can intermittently contact the insulating board, can cause ticking. Remelt the eyelets and examine the board underneath for any blobs dripped down.

• Funny ground on some SF Fenders; On one of the signal tubes, the cathode cap was placed on the tube socket, and wired to a ground lug on the vibrato cancel jack instead of across the resistor on the fiberboard. The vibrato shares this ground line, and can the vibrato current can cause audible ticking in the audio path. Rewire the cap to another ground or relocate it to the board.

• Poor Signal wire layout: signal wires run too close to vibrato leads can pick up the LFO signal. Move them around and see if the ticking goes away.

• Bad repair/replacement foot switch cable: the Fender foot switch cable is not two conductor; it's single conductor shielded, plus single conductor. The reverb wire is shielded, vibrato wire is not. This keeps vibrato out of reverb. If you retrofit with two conductor shielded, you get vibrato ticking onto reverb audio.

• Sharp tick in vibrato oscillator: On neon/LDR Fenders, on the neon bulb side of the module there is a 10M to one side of bulb, 100K to the bulb; from the 10M straight across the board is the gnd point of the LDR. Put a 0.02 cap from 10M/bulb to the ground point; this works by filtering the output of the oscillator.


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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:49 am
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The "improved" DRRI (and presumably the '68 "vintage modified" edition) has two additional sub-boards for the tremolo circuit.

And neither of them contain an opto-roach......

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Ain't the digital age grand?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:07 am
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You mean to tell me Fender kept the opto-roach (OP1) on the main motherboard? "I see" said the blind man to his deaf dog....


http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... manual.pdf


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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:12 am
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There's no trem roach anywhere......

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That's what I'm telling you. You can plainly see where it was deleted from its former location on the main board.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:52 am
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Yeah, digital. I now see the FETs on that secondary board with the two red "blob" caps on its edge. Kinda like a cheap tremolo stomp box circuit. Makes one wonder just how much influence that 12AX7 Vibrato tube has on this "modified" amp. :?: :?: :?:



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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:46 am
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Besides consuming some heater current, probably nothing. Nothing at all.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:42 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Yeah, digital. I now see the FETs on that secondary board with the two red "blob" caps on its edge. Kinda like a cheap tremolo stomp box circuit. Makes one wonder just how much influence that 12AX7 Vibrato tube has on this "modified" amp. :?: :?: :?:



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Is the DRRI trem truly digital or is it just solid state? The above circuit is not digital. It is analog solid state.

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:17 pm
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I suppose it's a solid-state circuit but in any case, the amp is no longer an all-tube platform like the advertising hype would lead the uninformed to believe.

And adding insult to injury the goddam thing doesn't work!

:roll:

Another promising new product to be permanently scratched off my bucket list.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:58 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I suppose it's a solid-state circuit but in any case, the amp is no longer an all-tube platform like the advertising hype would lead the uninformed to believe.

And adding insult to injury the goddam thing doesn't work!

:roll:

Another promising new product to be permanently scratched off my bucket list.

Arjay


Don't disagree. My point is, everything that doesn't perform as expected is labeled as "digital". There are plenty of crap analog tube and solid state circuits out there.

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:13 pm
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No arguments there. Standell springs to mind.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:55 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Besides consuming some heater current, probably nothing. Nothing at all.

Arjay


You guys are the engineers and I'm just a dumb lawyer, but do you realize what you're saying is literally class-action lawsuit type stuff? I swear I am not a big drum up litigation proponent, but far less meritorious class actions have been filed and been successful. Are you basically saying that although Fender is advertising these amps as tube amps, they have digital components that essentially are no different than a modeling amp and the tube is literally there for decoration? At least partially, such as the tube that is supposed to control the Tremelo? And on the 65 DRRI too? I am reading what you guys are saying and posting literally, and it is almost as if Fender is flat out lying about the internals of these amps and not expecting anybody to open them up and actually look inside with an understanding of electrical engineering like you guys do?

If I am reading what you guys are saying correctly, then wow. Again, far less clear and strong class action lawsuits have been successful involving all sorts of products. Fender cannot claim it is selling you an all tube amp for $1000 and have it actually be run by computer circuits inside no different than a Mustang modeling amp!

( this might also explain why many people feel the mustang amps sound just as good as a tube amp LOL.). Is it the same guts to the amp with a different price tag?


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Post subject: Re: '68 Deluxe Reverb problems...
Posted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:48 pm
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I have not seen the revised schematic for the DRRI with the modified tremolo -- apparently, FMIC is guarding it much like the original Coke formula, the atomic composition of Element 115, or the Third Secret Of Fatima. But the reality is, the added circuit boards feature solid-state components that were never part of the original design. And they seem to bypass altogether the tube that previously handled those specific duties.

If you're a lawyer with time on your hands or in need of money to afford a second or third Lamborghini then I say go for it.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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