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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:26 pm
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Despite my success last week with my lose spade terminal on a speaker, my 212r decided to take trip south by exhibiting lots of hum and a rattle different from the lose terminal rattle. I took it to my local Fender service center. The report came back that rather than repairing, I was being offered a new Champion 100 under warranty. (You really have to hand it to Fender: these folks do stand behind their gear.)

I just download the manual. While not having a tank reverb, it does have some features I am really looking forward to hearing including voice selection that includes "Fender JazzMaster flat solid-state clean." There are three other clean voices in addition to channel 1.

I hope to have the new amp shortly. Look for an update in a week or so.

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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:01 pm
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Archtop Bill wrote:
The report came back that rather than repairing, I was being offered a new Champion 100 under warranty.


The Frontman 212R has been discontinued -- the new Champion 100 is the closest equivalent product. It may in fact be a better-built amp.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:29 pm
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Let us know what you think of your replacement amp.
I bought the 212R head version, a FM100H, and it gives a great "Fender clean" sound. I had no thoughts that I was buying more of an amp that I recieved, but for $200 shipped with a 5 year warranty, I didn't see how I could go wrong. Playing steel guitar through it and a 2-12 EV loaded cab, I think it sounds better than my friend's Nashville 400, with a BW 15.
I seldom use it anymore, but fired it up last week when others came over to jam, and used my other amps, it still sounds fine!


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:09 am
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I'm wondering, are they using the voicings that used to be in the Super Camp and Vibro Champ XD amps (only without the tubes)? Or are these the same voices that are in the Mustangs and are now being used in the new X2 (only without Fuse editing)? If and when my local Fender dealer finally gets these in, I will know with one listening.

In the meantime, does anyone know?

I have both and much prefer the more organic sound of the XD voices to the more pristine and solid state like voicings of the Mustangs and the new X2's. If they are indeed the old XD voicings then I might be tempted to buy a new Champion 100. It won't have the XD tubes, but I think that the cleaner voices would stand up pretty well on their own, as they are quite tube-like for digital voices. The more high gain dirtier voicings, not so much. Not all together bad, but digital gain just isn't tube gain - at least, not yet. IMHO.

Just dreaming aloud: I wish they had expanded the XD line of digital/tube hybrids into a couple of higher watt versions with single and double 12's. But, this might just be the next best thing.

I do appreciate that Fender keeps working to move forward, while still preserving the past. And, putting good sounding, playable amps into the hands of folks who can't afford the 'big boys'.


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:20 pm
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Doc Waters wrote:
I do appreciate that Fender keeps working to move forward, while still preserving the past. And, putting good sounding, playable amps into the hands of folks who can't afford the 'big boys'.


Uh, sure......

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=89670

Whatever you say.

:roll:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:21 pm
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And your point is?

Suggest you consider adding more fiber to your diet.

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:27 pm
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The point is......"Doc".......you're a clueless quack if you missed the point.

Good night to you, sir!

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:36 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I prefer REAL Fender amps.
You know......those designed by Leo Fender himself.
Arjay


Yes, I too love the sound of the so called 'real' amps. But let's keep this discussion real. Those old tube amps were not the most reliable. In fact they could be darn right finicky. As a touring musician in the 60s and 70s I remember how happy we were when solid state amps came out. Sure the 'distortion' effect sucked, but at least you knew when you got to the gig that your amp would be working. In those days you could hardly give away your old tube amp. Having 'old faithful' break down during a performance, and carrying a bunch of backup amps and a suitcase full of tubes to every gig wore real thin. I can't tell you how many times I had to repair the spring reverb! Just look at them the wrong way and you had to resolder them.

So sorry, Arjay, Leon designed wonderful amps, and I would love to have a whole studio full of them, but take off your rose colored glasses, and keep it real.

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:53 pm
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" I remember how happy we were when solid state amps came out. "

Really?


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:03 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
" I remember how happy we were when solid state amps came out. "

Really?

Yup, hard to believe. But, that's a fact. :)


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:33 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
" I remember how happy we were when solid state amps came out. "

Really?


+1000!

Pure unadulterated horseshit, spewed by a neophyte who worships at the silicone altar of technological expediency.

Daily UV therapy might prove beneficial to someone in the Pacific Northwest who's seldom exposed to the rays of sunlight. Those radiant beams may be the ticket to curing such a textbook case of RDD......

"REALITY DEFICIT DISORDER"

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:36 pm
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OMG. That's too funny. My apologies Arjay. I don't usually get sucked in by trolls.


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:44 pm
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Doc Waters wrote:
OMG. That's too funny. My apologies Arjay. I don't usually get sucked in by trolls.

You're new here. Aren't you?

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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:28 pm
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:D :D :D So it would seem! Should I have known better?

But not particularly. I've been here since 2010. I visit almost daily, but I only post when I have a question or something that I think I can contribute.

This time I asked a legitimate question re the Champion voices and expressed the opinion that I was glad that Fender was making playable amps that people of all ages and income can afford. And I got flamed. Which I didn't appreciate. My bad. I should have known better than to react when baited.

For the record, I love tube amps, but I did mean what I said about ss amps being a welcome addition to our band in the early 70s. For a bunch of very good reasons, even beyond reliability. But I'm not sure anybody really wants to hear them. :)

Doc


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Post subject: Re: Champions = frontman replacement?
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:50 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Archtop Bill wrote:
The report came back that rather than repairing, I was being offered a new Champion 100 under warranty.


The Frontman 212R has been discontinued -- the new Champion 100 is the closest equivalent product. It may in fact be a better-built amp.

Arjay


They definitely appear to be a better built amp from the one I seen this past Monday at Sweetwater Sound in Ft. Wayne,IN. where I not only bought my gear,but also take music lessons. Someone else was trying it out and I thought it sound really good for a SS amp.
I had heard the older Frontman amps and I always thought they had a tinny sound to them,...but that's just me.
Although not a tube job,...the new Champion amps do sound good and seem built really well. I think they will do well,...we'll just have to wait and see. I think it is wonderful that Fender is offering you a new amp under warranty rather than fix the older one.

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