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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:24 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Krhodes wrote:
First off: Mexicans are lazy and seek only a free lunch and a free ride probably watch too much television.


I never asserted that you said that, nor did I imply that you did.

I said those who share your mindset do.

And I damn well meant it.

Since you have such a limited grasp of the king's english and lack the credibility to argue your stereotypical xenophobic position, might I suggest that you piss off.

We are here primarily to discuss Fender guitars and amps......and I've fixed more of both than you're likely to ever own. I shall take my leave of you now and relish placing you on my "banned from the ranch" list.

¡Adios, mariposo!

Arjay


Arjay, I am honored that I am apparently *not* on your ignore list, and I mean that.


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:36 pm
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I remember back in the 1970s when Yamaha started marketing solid state amps, many people were intrigued. After purchaing one, I soon realized it was one of the worse sounding amps around. Since the introduction of SS amps, the only one I found decent was the Marshall valvestate line, even though it uses a tube in the preamp stage.

We now have digital amp modeling, yet this technology is not quite there when compared alongside some of the great vintage amps. But when you compare it to a solid state amp, it's the rage, albeit not an accurate gauge. The reason why tube amps are still the standard is because they consisted of simple circuits and tubes made of good construction. Today, everything is over engineered and components are often bottom of the barrel to cut costs.

As much as I like technology, a vintage Neve or SSL recording console, like many of the vintage tube amps, will outshine much of the gagetery being made today. In many ways, these products are not much different than the Yamaha SS, I purchased in the 1970s. I knew it was marginal.


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:41 pm
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My recollection of that era is a bit different. Sunn had just introduced their line of mega-power amps based on FET technology and while the guitar versions sounded a bit flat and "clinical", the models designed for bass instruments and PA systems based on their Coliseum platform were outstanding designs. As well, Kustom had been around for about five years by then and transistor technology had matured to the point that they, along with amps built by Acoustic Control, were considered by artists and performers to be "professional grade". Of course these companies all built their products using the finest components available and conservative old-school engineers, many of them having worked in the defense and aerospace industries, saw to it that the designs were both reliable and durable. Contrast that with today's disposable technology......

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:02 am
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Arjay:

The reason Sunn amps worked well in bass applications is because transistors have a natural compression lending to a more focused sound that is well suited for the 40-100 Hz range (4 string bass). Around that time, there was also a move to FET studio mics, like the TLM 170, U47 FETs, KMs, etc. Yet most recording engineers will tell you, they were not the equivalent of a quality tube mic, mainly because they lacked the airiness, warmth and openness of transformer based tube mics.

Despite that, solid state worked well in the 1980s, as recording became more layered and compressed, which is why consoles like the SSL 4000 E series became a staple in most high end studios. Factor in high end tube compressors and EQs being used at the tracking and mix stages, and solid state was very much being shaped by transformers and tubes.

I would venture to say, the bland sound of SS amps is why companies in the 1990s began incorporating tubes in the V1 stage, along with an array of tube based stomp boxes and pres with starved tube plate designs, like ART. Being a midrangy instrument, transformers and tubes simply work better at smoothing out the harshness unique to that frequency spectrum.

We now find ourselves at a digital crossroad, in that, digital seems to be ideally suited at modeling sounds. It does not surprise me, however, that tube amps are still around and I suspect it will be that way for quite some time. I prefer the digital amps over any of the transistor based amps I have used in the past. with the exception of the Marshall valvestate line, which was not bad at the time.


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:44 pm
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Don't forget CMOS. This Sunn sounds pretty sweet. :)

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:51 pm
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CliffS wrote:
We now find ourselves at a digital crossroad, in that, digital seems to be ideally suited at modeling sounds. It does not surprise me, however, that tube amps are still around and I suspect it will be that way for quite some time. I prefer the digital amps over any of the transistor based amps I have used in the past. with the exception of the Marshall valvestate line, which was not bad at the time.


My Zoom Amp Simulator relies on digital technology and once I finished tweaking the presets, it does a great job at creating the tones I need to cover the various eras of music I play. My amp platforms are all vintage tube Fenders and most guitar players in an audience are pleasantly shocked and amazed at the versatility this combination yields. I can go from Slash to "Let It Rain" to a pretty close approximation of SRV with only a couple of foot taps. And an A/B/Y footswitch permits different EQ settings on a two-channel amp which provides even more sonic capabilities. My rig can do virtually anything the new modeling-and-channel-switching amps can do but without any hiss, fuzz, buzz, or channeling-switching lag. And my amps are all built as tough and dependable as a '66 Ford F100 pickup so I never worry about their reliability.

Digital (and solid-state) have their place......they're just not the be-all/end-all for music equipment that some folks believe.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:53 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
................Digital (and solid-state) have their place......they're just not the be-all/end-all for music equipment that some folks believe.

Arjay

I gotta agree w/ that 100% having tried the ss modelers, and moved back to tube amps w/ effects pedals (usually the single function variety).

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:27 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
................Digital (and solid-state) have their place......they're just not the be-all/end-all for music equipment that some folks believe.

Arjay

I gotta agree w/ that 100% having tried the ss modelers, and moved back to tube amps w/ effects pedals (usually the single function variety).


+1 If they were, I'd be using them. I just like building tube amps too much. I've decided to build another tube amp over the holidays. :mrgreen: A 60 watter that can be modded in 32 different variations. Seems pretty sweet. I can do it with 6L6, EL34's different tone stacks, including a Fenderesque tone stack, variations on a negative feedback loop. Looks like a fun holiday project. Plus it's true point to point, only terminal strips, no turret board. :wink:

I've got to get my brother to record some sound samples for me. No matter how hard I try, I keep going back to analog stuff. My latest pedal is a distortion pedal that runs a 12ax7 preamp tube in "starved plate" mode. Very warm sounding distortion. It makes my old Pignose and Guild Four SS porch weasels sound great.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:13 pm
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63supro wrote:
...My latest pedal is a distortion pedal that runs a 12ax7 preamp tube in "starved plate" mode. Very warm sounding distortion.....


That's the way it's done in a typical Carvin amp. Their lower wattage settings reduce the Plate voltage on the PI. I typically run an X100B in the 25 watt mode because of this, and I agree that it makes for some great distortion sounds, even at low volume.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:44 pm
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I'll often use a Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Classic OD/Distortion pedal (now discontinued). This tube pedal has two "channels" and makes for some great tones. A few new ones have recently been advertised on ebay.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 5:55 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
[quote="My Zoom Amp Simulator relies on digital technology and once I finished tweaking the presets, it does a great job at creating the tones I need to cover the various eras of music I play. My amp platforms are all vintage tube Fenders and most guitar players in an audience are pleasantly shocked and amazed at the versatility this combination yields.


It sounds like the safest alternative, since an amp based entirely on digital modeling would lack the durability and reliability of a point-to-point wired tube amp. I am not real big on plastic components (jacks, switches, pots, and what not) being used in many of the amps today.

I've also been looking at the Super Champ X2 series that combine both tubes and digital modeling, but am not too sure how those components would hold up in a "hot tube" environment, over an extended period. It seems it could result in preset misfires and other problems.

Despite that, I really like what Fender is doing with its digital modeling and where this technology is heading.


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:08 pm
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CliffS wrote:
I am not real big on plastic components (jacks, switches, pots, and what not) being used in many of the amps today.


If the amp has a plastic logo, guess what's inside......?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:53 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
CliffS wrote:
I am not real big on plastic components (jacks, switches, pots, and what not) being used in many of the amps today.


If the amp has a plastic logo, guess what's inside......?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


If they're blatant enough to put plastic in full view on the outside, there really is no shame. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:10 am
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IM4Tone wrote:
I gotta agree w/ that 100% having tried the ss modelers, and moved back to tube amps w/ effects pedals (usually the single function variety).
I did the same thing as well. I used a Line-6 AX2-212 for a while. It was an interesting sojourn. I could get a mediocre facsimile of a high number of tones but not a single one of them was vibrant enough or expressive enough or had enough of the textural complexities to be considered "good". I returned to real amps and real pedals.

You know, there are some of us on this board who sometimes get flack for being snobbish and narrow minded about amplifiers and I sometimes wonder if those giving the flack are actually aware that many of the people they're dissing have tried the lower and broader path that the majority walk before they made their choice to walk the higher, narrower path ..... that there is indeed some perspective involved in the opinions expressed.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:05 am
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BMW-KTM wrote:
You know, there are some of us on this board who sometimes get flack for being snobbish and narrow minded about amplifiers and I sometimes wonder if those giving the flack are actually aware that many of the people they're dissing have tried the lower and broader path that the majority walk before they made their choice to walk the higher, narrower path ..... that there is indeed some perspective involved in the opinions expressed.


For the skepticism of others I am blameless.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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