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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:57 pm
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Krhodes wrote:
...if they are in Mexico then forget it, it will never improve) cause the Chinese corporations respond really really well to margin incentives and punishments...


:lol: :lol: :lol: That is freakin' hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Actually, the Chinese sometimes start off fairly well, and then start screwing you with cuts and more cuts. I would take one typical MIM product over a boatload of Chinese crap. Yes, some Chinese products are good, but the vast majority sucks donkey-balls.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:06 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Krhodes wrote:
...if they are in Mexico then forget it, it will never improve) cause the Chinese corporations respond really really well to margin incentives and punishments...


:lol: :lol: :lol: That is freakin' hilarious. :lol: :lol: :lol:


+1

Say that aloud enough times and you might even convince yourself.

:P

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:28 am
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talking culture here, not race:

china: iphones are made there. lots of quality stuff. however... having lived there for a few years and knowing the culture a bit ... if you don't get a chinese person to do your bidding for you in china you're screwed. and if you don't treat them like they treat each other (nothing matters but money... money is god) then you're screwed. but you can make things work if you play their game.

mexico: imported stuff from mexico for years - gave up and got it from columbia instead. it is hard to get the mexicans to actually work... I like them better as a culture ... but "work" is a 4 letter word down there ;)

mexico is a great place to vacation. china is a great place for an adventure.

but tons of exceptions, both cultures are interesting - but for making money and getting stuff done, go to china. they are the next germany of the world, without the guilt complex.

case in point: the fender strats $400 or so, made in china? awesome! great qc was put in place for that line of guitars. i just wish they would do the same with their amps... (actually, as a proud owner of a fender mustang bass - awesome instrument - my experience with the guitar/bass instruments vs their amps is night and day... not tone quality with is awesome, but built quality)

enjoy playing!


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:37 am
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Krhodes wrote:
it is hard to get the mexicans to actually work... I like them better as a culture ... but "work" is a 4 letter word down there ;)


I live ten miles from the Mexican frontier and I routinely shop in Naco, Mexico every month. For over a quarter of a century now.

You're full of crap, pal.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:49 am
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Traynor does make some really nice amps.

As far as Chinese and Mexican production goes, I think that early on, they stay on top of things until they get a foothold, then everything slides downhill if you don't keep a really close eye on it. I think that's what's happening at Egnater, Fender and many other companies. I have an early Egnater Rebel 20 and the thing is rock solid. The later Rebel 30's, higher power Tweakers and Renegade series suffer the same QC problems as Fender and many others. For lower end gear, I still like VHT and Jet City. There's a lot of bang for the buck there.

I may be getting ready to build a 60 watt, true point to point amp and mod it a bit maybe with a Fender type tone stack and a couple other goodies. Nothing like what Bluesky's been building, but Bill has a lot more going on upstairs than I do, I'm not that smart. :lol:

I just built a true PTP Tremolo pedal, and I've just started a true point to point tube distortion pedal that utilizes a 12ax7 or other preamp tube running in starved plate mode. I'll post photos of both when I'm done with the distortion pedal.

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:35 pm
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Ok, I'm full of crap. Anytime you (3rd person) makes a blanket statement, you know they are full of crap.

What I should have done was have a narrow focus. I'm sure that lots of stuff made in Mexico is really good quality, same with Chinese stuff. But somewhere the ball was dropped by Fender cause the amps seem to have a lot of QC issues right out of the box, which is unusual. Something is going on with the amp factories? It could have happened anywhere, sure. It is the company and the job they do to get on their QC that is at issue.

But you have to admit, that in general, Germany is more economically productive than Greece, and China is more economically productive than Mexico. That was the illusion I should have drawn. Work ethic mirrors the results when you are talking economics... Not to say I wouldn't rather live in Greece or Mexico than Germany or China (I would rather be laid back and relaxed - don't get me wrong!)

Happy playing!


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:41 pm
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Krhodes wrote:
...it is hard to get the mexicans to actually work... I like them better as a culture ... but "work" is a 4 letter word down there...


I guess that we all have different experiences. I have a lot of experience working with Mexicans, in southern CA, NM, OK, TX, IN and even in Mexico, and I find that they are some of the hardest working people in America. In fact, the main reason that Mexicans can get jobs is that they are willing to work while the local kids here in America are just plain lazy, for the most part. I talk to a lot of farmers around where I grew up, and these days there are a great many more Mexicans and other Hispanics working the farms than there are local kids. When I ask the farmers why they don't hire the locals more, they say that the locals just will not do the hard work, even for more money. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:41 pm
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Really, the quality of products from ANY country depends on the QA/QC and general philosophy of management. Even "Holy" countries, like Germany, has produced some crap.

And I believe ALL cell phones and flat screen TV are being made in China, Thailand, or Korea these days. Except for the very high-end stuff.

BTW--- anyone have experience with Sony's new 4K line? Thanks!

http://store.sony.com/c/S_4KTV/en/c/S_4 ... 70-871-270


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:43 pm
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Krhodes wrote:
But you have to admit, that in general, Germany is more economically productive than Greece, and China is more economically productive than Mexico.


I will so stipulate thus.

But to lambaste a nation's entire population based on such a narrowly-focused generalization such as you implied does a disservice to that people and the perceptions that others may draw from it. Those who hold the view that Mexicans are lazy and seek only a free lunch and a free ride probably watch too much television, just as my esteemed associate shimmilou has indicated.

And let's not forget that the original Fender Electric Instrument Company and the follow-on CBS-FMI organization was staffed by a majority of folks who originally called Mexico their home or whose ancestors did. History seems to indicate that they did a pretty good job......

¿Entiendes?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:52 pm
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Etiendo!

First off: Mexicans are lazy and seek only a free lunch and a free ride probably watch too much television.

I never said that. If that's all u thought I was implying then I am no clear enough. You are drawing from some other thought process and are trying to make a point - and I appreciate the sentiment of what u are saying, but I am not that which thou should target.

It's a catch 22 really. Any general analysis can be false in any specific, but without general analysis then logical deduction is impossible. U are left with only inductive logic which is only specific and makes up the general in fantasy. So u have a choice between impossibility and fantasy.... I mean, if u can't take the broad spectrum of facts and deduce what might be the case - then why bother thinking about anything at all? Why not just make it up as u see fit? ... Er... Oh ya that is what most people do.... Fools! Muhahaha /joke laugh

But applying that to the case in point, u can't argue against a general observation because it happens to be true and u don't like the deduction. Conceding the point and then trying to be politically correct is so 20th century... Who gives a track anyways? Of course the Mexicans are lazier than the Chinese - that's not even the point! I love Mexico but I don't love China - and I've lived in China a few years ;) loved any time spent in Mexico...


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:08 pm
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Krhodes wrote:
First off: Mexicans are lazy and seek only a free lunch and a free ride probably watch too much television.


I never asserted that you said that, nor did I imply that you did.

I said those who share your mindset do.

And I damn well meant it.

Since you have such a limited grasp of the king's english and lack the credibility to argue your stereotypical xenophobic position, might I suggest that you piss off.

We are here primarily to discuss Fender guitars and amps......and I've fixed more of both than you're likely to ever own. I shall take my leave of you now and relish placing you on my "banned from the ranch" list.

¡Adios, mariposo!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:17 pm
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Ok - ill piss off. But u did imply that...

I do not share that mindset. But u obviously think I do.

Sorry u misunderstand me. I meant no harm. From my point of view we are all equally fracked, myself included... I am no xenophobe and have no hatred of any culture. Don't get me started on the flaws of my own culture - there are many...

Thank you for your amp insights - you are wise and have valuable opinions - but are quick to temper ;)

Live long and prosper?


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:59 am
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Krhodes wrote:
...Live long and prosper?


Oh, don't get me started on those heartless Vulcans! :lol:

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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:57 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Oh, don't get me started on those heartless Vulcans! :lol:


Sub Commander T'Pol had a heart I could warm up to. Mmmmmm ....
:wink:


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Post subject: Re: "They Don't Make Things Like they Used To" ???
Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:26 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Sub Commander T'Pol had a heart I could warm up to. Mmmmmm ....
:wink:


Image


I'm more of a "Seven Of Nine" guy myself.

Resistance to her (and her 'charms') is futile.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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