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Post subject: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:49 am
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I got my Supersonic used a few years ago, and the effects loop has never worked. There is no output from send jack (and yes, I've tried turning the knob, and activating the foot switch)...

Otherwise, the amp is fully functional. Is it possible there's a blown fuse somewhere? Am I missing something? Has anyone else had this problem?


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:38 am
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Exactly which Super Sonic do you have? Depending on the model, the send/return loop is either tube or IC buffered. If it has a tube buffer, just replace the tube. If it is an IC, take it to a good amp tech.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:14 am
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It is a tube driven effects loop, check the 12AX7 tube in position V4, half is used for the effects send.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 11:25 am
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shimmilou wrote:
It is a tube driven effects loop, check the 12AX7 tube in position V4, half is used for the effects send.


Agree that the 60 watt 112 is V4. But the 22 also comes in a 112 configuration and its effects loop is IC driven. So when one says "Super Sonic 112", to which amp is one referring to?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 4:44 pm
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The "112" is a 60 watt combo (also comes in a head), and the schematics are labeled "Super-Sonic Schematic" on the schematics page, but when you download/save the schematic it is titled "Super-Sonic Combo", but the title on the schematic is "Super-Sonic Head/112 Combo". I think that the "112" is just called the "Combo" now, or simply the "Super-Sonic". There is some difference between the "112" and the "60" (the 60 comes in head or combo also), but I haven't looked closely at the schematics to see if it's just a layout difference or circuit difference, although both (all four?) are 60 watt amps and all have tube driven reverb, V4b.

http://support.fender.com/schematics/guitar_amplifiers/Super-Sonic_Combo_schematic.pdf

Is that confusing enough? :lol: After going through all that my head hurts a little bit. :lol:

Geez, I hope that the OP isn't talking about the "22". :?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:03 pm
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After looking at the schematics, it appears that the "112" and the "60" are the same, although the schematics are numbered differently, and some of the test points show different voltages. I seem to remember the name change from 112 to 60........maybe to save confusion since the 22 is also a 112. :?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:33 pm
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Referring to an amp by its speaker configuration just begs confusion. :?

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:40 pm
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:lol: Yep!

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:58 pm
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Thanks for the responses everyone. I was indeed talking about the 112 60W combo--I'm not sure what the differences are between the 112 and the 60, but my amp tech tells me that the 112 has a cleaner PCB.

Now, before you say, "Amp tech? Why not just bring it to him?"... I wanted to see if there was anything easy I could try before I pay him $50 to open it up and tell me a fuse is blown. :mrgreen:

I'll try replacing the tube in V4--hope that's it!


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:49 pm
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So before I open up the chassis, I realized I should probably use this opportunity to address some other problems with my Supersonic. Namely, it's too noisy, too loud, and the clean channel is a bit too jangly/harsh. I intend to use it at bedroom (or slightly louder) volumes for recording and need to eliminate as much of the noise (mostly hiss/white noise, in all channels) as possible.

Reading through some older threads, it seems like the consensus is that the amp design is inherently noisy, but that replacing some tubes and biasing them hotter can help. I'm hoping to replace most of the 12AX7's with AT7's or 5751's, and the 6L6GC's with 6V6's. Has anyone had success with this kind of swap? And if so, do you have any advice on which tubes would make suitable replacements, or how to bias them?


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:06 am
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above wrote:
So before I open up the chassis, I realized I should probably use this opportunity to address some other problems with my Supersonic. Namely, it's too noisy, too loud, and the clean channel is a bit too jangly/harsh. I intend to use it at bedroom (or slightly louder) volumes for recording and need to eliminate as much of the noise (mostly hiss/white noise, in all channels) as possible.

Reading through some older threads, it seems like the consensus is that the amp design is inherently noisy, but that replacing some tubes and biasing them hotter can help. I'm hoping to replace most of the 12AX7's with AT7's or 5751's, and the 6L6GC's with 6V6's. Has anyone had success with this kind of swap? And if so, do you have any advice on which tubes would make suitable replacements, or how to bias them?


With all of these gripes it's pretty apparent (at least to me) that you've bought the wrong amp for your intended mission. Why not start with a new SS22 combo (lower output to address the offending volume issue) and work from there to clean it up for studio use?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:15 am
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I didn't buy it for studio use, and I have other low wattage, noiseless amps that I use for recording; I just want to work on this one so it can stop collecting dust. You're right that the 22W version would probably be a better place to start (would at least solve the loudness issue), but I already own this one--not really looking to go through the whole process of selling it and buying a new one. From the threads I found, it seems like noise problems were even more common in the 22 than in the 60...

I didn't mean to make it sound like I hate this amp--there are things I love about it and things I wish I could change. So why not invest a little bit more in a set of new tubes and see if I can change any of those things?


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:32 am
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How Noisy is the Clean Channel? It should be dead quiet with the reverb off? If anything look at replacing the reverb cables and tubes to quieten the hiss from there.

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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:47 am
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Just tested it out, and it's even worse than I remember. I'll try to describe it to the best of my abilities...

Amp volume at 0, guitar volume at 0 -- No audible noise.

Clean volume at 1, guitar volume at 0 -- Noticeable hiss/white noise (harder to detect on the bassman channel because there is significantly less HF).

Clean volume dimed, guitar volume at 0 -- Much louder white noise, as well as some kind of buzz (tbh I don't remember if the buzz was there before).

Burn channel acts the same way: with gain/volume all the way down, there is no noise; at low volumes there is noticeable hiss/white noise and at high volumes there is some kind of buzz.

Amp is grounded, nothing else plugged in, no pedals, no fluorescent lightbulbs.

The reverb actually seems to have the least impact. When I turn it all the way up there is some hum, but it's hard to detect through the other noise. When I brought this to an amp tech about a year ago, he fiddled with some connectors and the reverb hum became less intrusive. He also said that the amp wasn't any worse than other Supersonics he's heard, and that I might just be expecting too much from it (I didn't really like that answer but it sort of goes along with the sentiment that this amp is inherently noisy).


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Post subject: Re: Supersonic 112 Send/Return not working?
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:56 pm
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How close is your guitar to the amp whilst testing? The power transformers create some serious hum within 2-3 feet of your amp.

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