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Post subject: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:10 am
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My amp tech has had my Blues Deluxe on and off for months now. I have an issue which can only really be understood by listening - so I've recorded it.

https://soundcloud.com/jonny-dykes/blues-deluxe-problem

This weird break up/ring out/oscillation thing only happens around the A and G string 3rd and 5th frets on my Les Paul (C note but others in that area too) and on the A and G strings 10th and 12th frets on my Strat (F note on G string predominantly but others too). I had a similar break up (but not oscillation/high-mids ring out) on another amplifier (Roc Pro 1000) which was sorted by messing with the lead to the reverb tank but he reckons it's not that.

He has mentioned checking all the 'joints' but I have very little confidence now in what's going on with it.

The issue appears even with another speaker, and, with a separate set of pre-amp tubes or combinations. The power tubes I believe are fine and are relatively new.

Any ideas?!! Can't really afford to pay anyone any more including a different repair specialist... :cry:

Note/ The same tech installed a bias pot pictures of which etc can be found HERE: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=86954 - no idea if that has anything to do with it...


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:32 am
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Were the symptoms you describe present before installation of the bias pot?

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:54 am
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Short Story

The bias pot was a side-project - the main reason the amp went in was because of break up of most low notes, however, the oscillation /weird high-mids oddity was not present.

More Detailed Version

The initial reason the amp went to the tech was because pretty much all low notes were breaking up. This was probably due to broken power tubes or at least that's what the tech told me - it was feasible because we had been at a studio down a country lane with the biggest pot holes known to man (Monnow Valley if anyone is interested!) - upon reflection I'm not sure.

At that time he told me that a brand new set of power tubes I gave him as replacements were also faulty. Seemed odd, as the tube supplier pointed out (all tubes tested thoroughly before dispatch), but sent them back and got new ones which he said were OK.

So at that time, the bias pot was put in as a sort of side-project to allow me to bias new power tubes in future.

The amp seemed fine for a short while. I put new pre-amp tubes in and the issue became noticeable - then though, even the old pre-amp tubes put back in were causing the same problem. It could have been there all along because it's only at certain notes now like I say.

To be honest the whole thing is a haze because it's been a never ending saga.

My research led me to suggest the ribbons could be causing problems. The next time I seen him he said it was a ribbon and charged me. However, before dropping it to him I checked them and they seemed OK. So when I make suggestions next time I see him there has been a tendency to say that's what it was.

The thing is, he is respected around here and has 30 years of experience. However, there seems to be no plan of action - the words "it could be anything" keep coming out.

He is a nice guy however last time we fell out because it's been 3 months and I said I would be looking for a refund if it's not fixed. I'm picking it up this Friday.

From my research also I have thought R85 and R86 or C22 and C23 but he was slow on the uptake when I mentioned that and the relationship is stressed so I am in two minds whether to phone and suggest that....

From now on I will probably have to DIY. I'm alright. I mean I took that Roc Pro I mentioned completely apart and re-soldered a new input jack, saying that I'm now sure which parts will hurt me. None I assume, if it's grounded and turned off and the capacitors hold no charge...


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:58 am
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Buy a new amp.

And find a new amp tech.

This guy's been jerkin' yer gherkin for far too long.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:03 pm
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Can't really sell this one with a problem, minor as it is?

Not only that, but the C12N speaker, NOS pre-amp tubes and decent power tubes are investments in it...

Most importantly - I have essentially zero money for this!!

It's my ideal amp - cheapish, portable, blues rock southern type of Neil Young potential sounds...


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:06 pm
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Then it's your cross to bear.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:09 pm
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In that case... any advice as to what it could be?


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:25 pm
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This could be from the ribbon cables being too close to the back panel shielding, and/or their positioning. You might want to try the amp with the back panel removed to see if that changes anything. Try to position the ribbon cables with a slight hump in the middle, and the cables coming straight off of the main board at a 90 degree angle as in the picture below, and make sure that the cables are pushed in far enough that they won't touch the back panel when it is reinstalled. The cable on the far right is especially sensitive, and note that I removed the cable-tie holding the reverb cable to the ribbon cable, and pushed the excess reverb cable further into the amp.

Image

A little better lead dress couldn't hurt either.

Image

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 2:50 pm
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Yep. check to make sure the ribbon cables are not touching the back panel like shimmilou said.

My BDRI was making all kinds of odd vibration noises. When I pulled the back panel, they stopped. Holding the panel in place, I could see that the cables were just barely rubbing on the back panel. I pushed them in and also added a small washer to each machine bolt hole on the back panel to space the panel away from the chassis vey slightly. Presto. No more vibration. Its also a good idea to run a bead of silicone sealant along where the ribbons bend up from the PCB to reinforce them a little.

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:57 pm
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All my testing has been done with the back off.

When I get it back, I'l' try messing about with the ribbons - does it sound like a ribbon issue any of you have had (the audio file)?


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:19 pm
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sidepartings26 wrote:
All my testing has been done with the back off.

When I get it back, I'l' try messing about with the ribbons - does it sound like a ribbon issue any of you have had (the audio file)?


With sounds like mine did with the back on.

Have you investigated any other causes for vibration in either the amp or the room? Does it make the same noise in another room?

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:43 am
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I am thinking of doing the Fromel Supreme Mod Kit and seeing if I get anywhere...


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:49 pm
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Yeah, if you throw enough stuff on the wall something is bound to stick. :?:

But, it's your amp, and if you do get the kit, I would NOT change the 470 ohm resistors to the 330 ohm that come with the kit.

http://forums.fender.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=87553

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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:57 am
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After all that, it looks like it was the 5751 in V1. Argh!! V1 is missing the plastic ring that surrounds the tube, maybe that would be causing problems, I can see Eurotubes do a dampener but that actual part would be good if anyone knows where to get it...


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Post subject: Re: Blues Deluxe - Really Weird Issue - Soundcloud Link!!!
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:02 pm
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sidepartings26 wrote:
After all that, it looks like it was the 5751 in V1. Argh!! V1 is missing the plastic ring that surrounds the tube, maybe that would be causing problems, I can see Eurotubes do a dampener but that actual part would be good if anyone knows where to get it...


And you determined that how?

Agree with simmilou. The Frommel kit is a waste of money for what it provides. If you are interested in modding your BDRI, read my thread on that subject. There are several mods that can be made for no to moderate amounts of money that will be better than what Frommel provides.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=80142

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